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Archiver > PAALLEGH > 2004-01 > 1075028680


From: "Victoria" <>
Subject: Re: [ALL] Immigrants from the Old Russian Empire
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 06:04:54 -0800


Looking on my ggrandmother's petition - it says he last place of residence
was Kassaujfalu, Hungary - she immigrated from Hamburg, Germany and arrived
New York, NY on Nov 1, 1903 but does not remember the name of the ship. (
Anna Horvat b. June 26, 1883) I know that Anna had a sister and I am almost
certain she came here with her - her name was Mary b. 1886.

I have tried all the polish message boards and have gotten a few replies but
nothing that amounted to anything...like I mentioned the last name is the
huge stumbling blocj as far as my ggrandfather is concerned...would love to
know what it was originally. It certainly was not spelled Gelesky/Jelesky or
Bedesky as it is in America.

Thanks for everything
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Jerin <>
To: <>
Date: Saturday, January 24, 2004 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ALL] Immigrants from the Old Russian Empire


>Correct I failed to read that it was your GGMs Petition.
>
>If Anna's ship arrived at Ellis Island then the manifest should be
available
>online. I have found numerous mis-transcribed spelling, also cases where
>the given name was transcribed as the surname, etc!
>
> If you don't mind giving me the name of the ship and the date (keep in
mind
>the Petition will typically say they "arrived on or about such and such a
>date") I will try to find her manifest for you.
>
>Also some clues are found in their obits, ie Anna'a arrival date of 1902
and
>the statement that Andrew was born in Poland in 1869! I am not certain if
I
>mentioned that prior to the Trianon Treaty around 1920 (which finalized WW
I
>which ended in 1918) Poland was divided between 3 countries, Prussia in the
>west, Russia in the east and Austria in the south. Warsaw would have been
>in the Russian part but it is doubful that he came from Warsaw. There was
>little reason for people leave large and generally prosperous cities.
>
>Perhaps since you believe that he spoke Polish you should post to the
Polish
>message boards. Also here is a link to a good Polish Genealogy web page
>
>http://www.polishroots.org/index.htm
>
>Robert
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Victoria" <>
>To: <>
>Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 2:09 PM
>Subject: Re: [ALL] Immigrants from the Old Russian Empire
>
>
>> I think we are getting a bit mixed up here - any information I have about
>my
>> ggrandfather comes from my ggreatmother's naturalization petition - there
>is
>> no paperwork for him - the courthouse has a record of an Andrew filing
for
>> citizenship but the registry says denied...but no other records are
>> available - so have no idea why denied or what happenned. I would assume
>my
>> ggrandfather came through Ellis Island like my ggrandmother did but I do
>not
>> know that for sure. There have been rumors for more years than I've been
>> alive that Gelesky is not the "real" surname. One of my ggrandfather's
>> supposed children - who was with him when my ggrandmother married him was
>> listed as Bedesky...another of his children went by the last name of
>> Jelesky. My ggrandfather shows up in the 1910 census index with the last
>> name spelled Jelesky and then again in 1920 in another county under
>Gelesky.
>> Very confusing...Wish I would have thought to ask questions 20 years
ago -
>> maybe then I'd have some answers or ideas now. I was always told the
>surname
>> started originally with Drwe or something to that effect????? So maybe he
>> came through under that name????
>>
>> I did go through most of the Anna Horvat(h) registered at the Ellis
Island
>> site and did not find my ggrandmother even tho I know the name of the
ship
>> and the date of entry - it just isn't there.
>>
>> I do appreciate your ideas - thanks
>> Victoria
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Robert Jerin <>
>> To: <>
>> Date: Saturday, January 24, 2004 3:57 AM
>> Subject: Re: [ALL] Immigrants from the Old Russian Empire
>>
>>
>> >By chance did your GGF come through Ellis Island? The Petition should
>give
>> >the name of the ship and the approximate date of entry into the US. In
>any
>> >case the ship manifest should show his place of origin.
>> >
>> >HORVAT(H) is a very common name among several ethnic groups in what was
>the
>> >Habsburg Empire aka Austria-Hungary, even though it is of Magyar
origins.
>> >The name translated to English means... Croatian.... even though many
who
>> >have that name are not Croatian. Sp HORVAT the name is typically
>Croatian
>> >or Slovak, sp HORVATH is is typically Hungarian aka Magyar. There at
>least
>> >274 Anna HORVATH found in Ellis Island records and Anna HORVAT found.
>> >
>> >And the place your GGM was from I can not find either.
>> >
>> >Robert
>> >
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "Victoria" <>
>> >To: <>
>> >Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 6:38 PM
>> >Subject: Re: [ALL] Immigrants from the Old Russian Empire
>> >
>> >
>> >> Thanks for replying...on my great grandmother's petition for
>> >naturalization
>> >> it list my great grandfather's place of birth as Scorba-Olsayka,
>> Russia...
>> >> it maybe just a sounds like name tho as my great grandma died at age
90
>> >and
>> >> NEVER spoke more than very broken english. My great grandmother's
name
>> >was
>> >> Anna Horvat(h) and she was supposedly from someplace called
>Kassaujfalu,
>> >> Austria/Hungary but it is my grat grandfather I am trying to find
>> >> information on - Andrew Gelesky/Jelesky.
>> >> Thanks again
>> >> Victoria
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Robert Jerin <>
>> >> To: <>
>> >> Date: Thursday, January 22, 2004 5:09 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [ALL] Immigrants from the Old Russian Empire
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >What type of document are you finding Scorba-Olsayka recorded on?
>> >> >
>> >> >What is your gggrandmother's name, first and last, at the time she
>came
>> >to
>> >> >America?
>> >> >
>> >> >Robert Jerin
>> >> >Croatian Heritage Museum
>> >> >Cleveland Ohio
>> >> >
>> >> >----- Original Message -----
>> >> >From: "Victoria" <>
>> >> >To: <>
>> >> >Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 11:25 AM
>> >> >Subject: Re: [ALL] Immigrants from the Old Russian Empire
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> my great grandmother listed on her naturalization papers that my
>great
>> >> >> grandfather was from a town named Scorba-Olsayka, Russia. I would
>> >assume
>> >> >> that because of the time period 1869/1872 - 1896 this would have
>been
>> >the
>> >> >> old russian empire? I know that my great grandfather spoke
>> >> >polish/hungarian
>> >> >> ???? It was often told that he was from Warsaw but how does that
>fit
>> >in
>> >> >> ??? He immigrated to the US in 1896 - coming to western PA sometime
>> >> around
>> >> >> the 1900's where he met my great grandmother. I have never been
able
>> to
>> >> >> figure out what town in "Russia" his place of birth might of
>> been...any
>> >> >> suggestions or ideas where to search?
>> >> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> From: Ron and Marge Zoblisein <>
>> >> >> To: <>
>> >> >> Date: Thursday, January 22, 2004 4:56 AM
>> >> >> Subject: Re: [ALL] Immigrants from the Old Russian Empire
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >I can certainly relate to that. My husband's grandfather over his
>> >> >lifetime
>> >> >> >stated that he was born in Austria, Poland and Russia on various
>> >> >documents
>> >> >> >such as census, SS application, naturalization papers, etc. while
>all
>> >> the
>> >> >> >time the family has maintained that they were Ukrainian. If you
>> check
>> >> >> >history, each statement was true at the time that he made it.
>Marge
>> >> >> >----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> >From: "Carol Movahed" <>
>> >> >> >To: <>
>> >> >> >Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 12:08 PM
>> >> >> >Subject: [ALL] Immigrants from the Old Russian Empire
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Hello all,
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> I missed the original message from the individual who was
looking
>> >for
>> >> >> LEVI
>> >> >> >> from Brison. There is a Freisen, Germany which sounds similar.
>I
>> >> >wanted
>> >> >> >to
>> >> >> >> tell of my experience researching my grandparents who came over
>> from
>> >> >> >> Vilnius, Lithuania which later became Vilnius, Poland. Well, on
>> >their
>> >> >> >Ellis
>> >> >> >> Island application they stated they were born in Russia. But in
>> >fact
>> >> >> they
>> >> >> >> were born in Lithuania which was then part of the old Russian
>> >Empire.
>> >> >> The
>> >> >> >> Russian Empire lasted from 1710 to 1918 and had European and
>Baltic
>> >> >> >> provinces. I'm fairly certain that they spoke Polish and
>> >identified
>> >> >> with
>> >> >> >> Poland even though they came from a territory controlled by the
>> >> Russian
>> >> >> >> Empire. If you do a search on "old Russian Empire" you can get
a
>> >> weath
>> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> information.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Carol M.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
_________________________________________________________________
>> >> >> >> Learn how to choose, serve, and enjoy wine at Wine @ MSN.
>> >> >> >> http://wine.msn.com/
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
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>> >> >> >
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