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Archiver > PACAMERO > 2003-05 > 1053133365


From: "Mike" <>
Subject: Re: [PA-CAMERON] Mike Wennen - 2 different people
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 21:07:15 -0400
References: <20030517001727.57471.qmail@web13802.mail.yahoo.com>


I do not think there is any question that the Mary who died in 1873 is the
one in the 1870 census.

I imagine that the 1860 census will hold some answers for you. You should
be able to find Jane living with her Hogan family if that is where she is
from.


Mike Wennin
Come Visit the Cameron County Genealogy Project!
http://www.rootsweb.com/~pacamero

----- Original Message -----
From: DIANE PERKINS <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 8:17 PM
Subject: [PA-CAMERON] Mike Wennen - 2 different people


> Dear Mike:
> I myself have wondered about that...but thought they
> just had the wrong ages written in the census records.
> From the census records here is what I have:
>
> 1870
> James Clary age 37 b. Ireland cannot write
> Jane Clary age 25 b. Ireland
> Delaphan age 8 MW born England
> Mary age 4 FW b. PA
> Thomas age 2 MW b. PA
>
> 1880
> Patrick Connor(s) age 32 b. Ireland
> Jane Connor(s) age 34 b. Ireland
> Della Clary st son age 17 WM b. PA
> Thomas Clary St.son age 11 WM b. PA
> Maggie Clary St. daughter age 9 b. PA
> Jennie Connor(s) age 6 b. PA
> Luke Connor(s) age 4 b. PA
> William Connor(s) age 2 b. PA
>
> Delaphan is Charles J. Clary (Cleary) note age
> discrepancy and birth place between 1870/1880.
> Thomas' age works out okay
> Mary may have been a first born girl
> Maggie may have been a second born girl
>
> While I can find no record of (Margaret)Jane marrying
> a second time, I do have a death record from St.
> Mary's Church, St. Mary's,PA for one James Cleary died
> Emporium, PA July 29, 1872 of tuberculosis. There is
> also a marriage record for a James Cleary marrying
> a Margaret Jane Hogan (Hagen) JANUARY, 1865. Than
> there is a baptism of Mary Josephine Cleary b.
> 1-5-1866. This same girl dies on Mar. 22, 1873.
> Another
> baptismal is recorded for Thomas Edward Cleary born
> on June 14, 1868. The parents listed for the girl and
> boy are James Cleary and Margaret Jane Hogan
> as is the record for the Mary Josephine who dies
> Mar 22, 1873. It is possible that another daughter
> was born after the 1870 census and was named Margaret
> but no baptismal records have been found on any of the
> other four children born to Margaret Jane. The son
> Thomas dies as the result of an accident in
> Cincinnati, OH in January 1893 age about 25. His death
> info is given by his brother Charles Deli Cleary and
> gives the parents names as James and Margaret Jane
> Cleary. The death of this Thomas and the relationship
> to brother Deli is confirmed in a letter to the
> Cameron Press written by Jane Connor(s)
> the mother of the two.
>
> On the 1880 census there is a Thomas Cleary married to
> Margaret with a daughters Mary and Ellen (should
> be Helen. The two later aka as Mayme and Nel). This
> family line in my ggf. When Margaret Jane Connor(s)
> dies, the Cameron County Press prints an article
> that say her body was returned to Emporium and was met
> at the station by an Egan funeral director and taken
> to the home of her brother Thomas. I believe the
> article should have read brother-in-law.
>
> On the death certificate of Charles "Delaphan" Cleary
> his youngest child Mary lists his parents as Thomas
> Cleary and Mary Carney. His birth date is given as
> June 3, 1865 and his birth place as Emporium.
> Certainly enough discrepancies here! It is family
> tradition that Charles age was lied about so that he
> could work on the railroad. True? False? Seems
> strange that St. Mary's has baptismal records which
> would match with "Mary" and Thomas" but not for the
> first born "Delaphan". I checked the census records
> and so did my cousin in Cincinnati but neither of us
> spotted a second James Clary in Cameron county in
> 1870, so that would I believe eliminate a second
> family with the same or similar names. I doubt
> Charles "Delly" father was Thomas my ggf because of
> age and the fact that my ggf only had girls - 9 out of
> 9.
>
> I now believe you may be correct in that their were
> two different girls but I don't believe the first
> would have married and been gone by 1880 as she would
> only have been 14, young even for 1880; the other
> reason is the death record at St. Mary's Church which
> corresponds nicely to the first girl's age.
> Now if only I could find that second piece of
> documentation that gives Margaret Jane's maiden name
> verifying for sure whether it is Hogan or Carney. I
> doubt Carney as the name doesn't appear anywhere else.
> There are plenty of Hogans however in your area and
> there is a Hogan who was a witness on my ggf's
> Petition for citizenship. Because of what appear to be
> numereous document errors, we believe it is necessary
> to find Margaret Jane's maiden name. It would also be
> potentially beneficial if we could document it as
> Hogan because the marriage record at St. Mary's shows
> James parents as Thomas Cleary and Mary Duly (Deely?
> fancy writing) My ggf's death certificate lists his
> father as Thomas Cleary and Mary ? last name
> illegible.
> Sorry for the length of this but there is no short
> way to tell the tale. I deeply appreciate the time it
> cost you to read it all. Any further thoughts on the
> matter? You must admit this is one scrambled mess!
>
> Now you know why I am interested in the rail line
> out of Emporium...I certainly would like to find
> baptismal certs on those other kids. I know they were
> baptised somewhere as the families remained Roman
> Catholic and they would need the certs for marriage.
> The Connor(s) family disappears from Emporium after
> the 1880 census and the next place I find them is in
> Ashtabula, OH 1900/1901 City Directory. That clue
> came from The Cameron Press article on Jane's death
> stating her body was brought from Ashtabula...they
> didn't sit her in a car chair so a funeral home had to
> have prepared her remains for shipment...I found the
> funeral home and they supplied me with a death record.
> God does work in mysterious ways.
>
> Aren't you glad you aren't Irish with there name
> patterns of using the same names over and over...the
> first born son named after the father's father, the
> second born son named after the father, the third born
> son after the wife's father's father and the fourth
> after the wife's father. The same is for the female
> names. I have umpteen Margaret's, Mary's, Thomas's
> and Jame's!
>
> Bless you again for all you efforts for those of us
> with roots in Emporium, especially those of us 2600
> miles or so away!
> Diane
>
>
>
>
>
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