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Archiver > PACE > 2007-02 > 1170462754


From: "Roy Johnson" <>
Subject: Re: [PACE] Fascinating letter from Ireland
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 18:32:34 -0600
In-Reply-To: <5a8e6ac10702021522g770d850ei722bb0f5036189ad@mail.gmail.com>


It's exciting to see that this has worked out.

Now if you could just find some British Paces willing to submit DNA! I can
guarantee that funding would be available, given that the Pace Society has
been yearning for more British participation.

Roy Johnson

-----Original Message-----
From: Liz Forrest [mailto:]
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 5:22 PM
To:
Cc: ;
Subject: Re: [PACE] Fascinating letter from Ireland

Wow, how lovely to be in touch with you directly Gordon. I had found your
Pace pages, but am such a neophyte, I gather I was just scratching the
surface! I've only just acquired a laptop to gain access to the web, but
I'm hoping to put it to good use, for my family and other research
(metaphysical based on etymology and symbolism), which may underlie some of
our family connections. Being partly from India, I was happy to meet
another researcher living in Bray, County Wicklow, who is working on a book
showing patterns of repeating incarnations between groups of people, based
on her own work for herself and other clients, who although having met
apparently by
chance, turned out to have the same roots. What a tree this is! She
is a Hayes, with McCarthy ancestry, etc., and met me when her research
brought her to Rathkeale. Many folk of Birmingham connections here too.

It's a fascinating place, both from the point of view of its history and its
people, with the original inhabitants still here, known as the Irish
"Travellers", mixed with the Normans and the Plantation families of English
landlords and their relatives and workers, and then the German Palatine
community who became part of the Methodist community after Wesley started
preaching here. Two of them, Barbara Heck and Philip Embury, began the
North American Methodist movement. Strangely my mother Elsie (christened
Elise) Kay, was baptised Primitive Methodist in Smethwick, but I didn't know
that until just a few years ago, as she converted to RC before marrying my
father, who was brought up by the Jesuits in St. Mary's, Bombay.

But how wonderful to meet someone whose aunt might well have known my
grandfather, as my mother told me that he used to serve on the local council
at one time, and that he had a great gift for oratory.
Unfortunately, he seems to have been one of those who was also allergic to
distilled alcohol, which handicapped him. Though it also gave us one of our
funniest family stories from WWII. I still remember being told of nights
when the air-raid sounded and he and a neighbour, a Mr. Trantor, having had
a few pints together would be seen standing out at the foot of the garden
near the air raid shelter
arguing over whose planes were flying overhead! Your aunt sounds
like a loving soul.

My grandfather was named William Kay and he married Ada Eliza Westwick,
after they met at a mutual aunt and uncle's family gathering. Again
unfortunately, we have lost touch with a very large section of the family,
Ellen's descendants who were located in Newcastle-on-Tyne after my
grandfather in his dotage emotionally hurt one of the grandsons. I think
Beatrice, his oldest daughter, their matriarch, had at least 3 sets of
twins. I've often wondered whether the English comedian, Peter Kay, is a
cousin.

I'm so mind-blown by this information and being in touch with you, please
forgive me if I forgot to comment on anything you've sent. I just turned 60
on January 30th, while my Dad's birthday is October 29th (1914), and my
mother's is November 15th. So both Sarah's could have been related to each
other, different generations? Cousins?
Sarah in Ireland often carries the nickname 'Sally', which I have taken for
some of my writing, Sally Woods -- couldn't resist :-) always loved puns!
Indicates that some at least of our ancestors revered the Great Mother as
the Great Willow Mother, one possible source of the name 'Jerusalem', as
Heavenly Willow Mother, Uru-Sal-Ma, according to Robert Graves. Given the
strange story of their interactions with the Egyptian pharaoh, the Sarah
married to Abraham, might well have been High Priestess of the Willow Grove,
and/or Weeping Ash (Ashera) among other things.

I live at Castle Matrix, Rathkeale, County Limerick, just outside of the
town on about 40 acres, all that's left of what would once have been a very
large estate. I can't afford it, but I'm managing to survive here, just,
hoping to find ways to make us self-sufficient again, but off the main
national grid, as the management are just too greedy for profits. I used to
take in guests B&B but over the years I couldn't afford the maintenance and
I'm not a DIY person, though I'd
like to be (runs in the family). The only grants I could tap into
are all coming from the EC as 'matching funds' only, and I haven't been able
to find a way to raise the 'match'. But they also have so many strings
attached and red tape, maybe it's better to be independent! The OPW or
Irish Board of Works, hates trees and rivers, every 20 years taking a
section of a river and turning it into a dead canal supposedly to stop
flooding or anything which 'might impede the flow'! Very strange people.
So much for helping the local wildlife.
I'm always amazed we have any! But as Shakespeare wrote, "Forgive and Puck
will mend!"

Speaking of Shakespeare, the castle history involves Raleigh, Spenser, John
Dee and Richard Boyle, the Great Earl of Cork, father of Robert Boyle
(Spenser married his cousin, Elizabeth Boyle), and the Boyles intermarried
with the Southwells also. But I've only recently found out that my brother
(Anthony William Forrest also, aka Harper) has been named Treasurer and
Trustee of the Board of the Shakespeare Society of America (Globe Playhouse
in LA), thanks to his friendship with the former founder, who passed on, and
his interest in theatre and Shakespeare (being an actor, musician and writer
himself).

He and his family (his Dutch wife, Evelijn von Brandenburg de Boer, is also
an actress, dancer and director) are living in Beverly Hills in a small
apartment, so that the children could benefit from the best education in
North America for the performing arts, which is gratis if you are a
resident. The three boys are all doing well (Alex the oldest, whose natural
father is also Canadian) is now in Holland with his family there, having
been in Spain for awhile with his Dutch grandmother boosting his Spanish,
and is a gifted poet and activist, very like my own son; Sam and Nathan are
still in high school, winning sports scholarships as athletes in lacrosse,
etc., and doing well at their studies too, and Amelia Emma, the youngest who
just turned 13, is a gifted ballerina, whose ballet master used to be a
principal dancer with the Paris Opera Ballet, teaches at Julliard in New
York also, and considers her his most talented dancer in 30 years of
teaching. So the Pace descendants are a gifted lot! :-)

My younger sister, Debra (who just gave me a 1998 blue Renault Scenic for my
60th birthday) is the practical working girl in the family and the only one
of us actually born in Canada. She has been mistaken for a Cree Indian
several times over the years while living in Montreal and Ottawa. She
worked as a project manager for Hewlett Packard in their Bracknell HQ for
about 9 years, before taking voluntary redundancy in time to come here to
look after my father and the castle, dogs and cat, while I stayed with my
son during his illness.
Now she's found a job as a receptionist at the new local hotel here, which
is very convenient for her, though not tapping her talents. So that's a
summary of my closest family. Looking forward to hearing more about all the
rest of yours and your research! Always been very happy to have Welsh roots
too. I've actually found myself singing spontaneously in a style that is
peculiarly Welsh (I think it's called 'penriclion' (sp?), with a jazz singer
and folk singer, both professionals in Montreal. They were as surprised as
I was, and it worked! :-) Love to both of you and your families, Liz

On 2/2/07, <> wrote:
> Roy Johnson wrote:
> > I had to disappoint this lady on the DNA test but she is trying to
> > trace a female. But what a fascinating letter! And of course the
> > locale is in John of Middlesex territory.
> >
> > Gordon (of Canada), are you there? Maybe you have something on this
> > Sarah Pace.
> >
> > Roy Johnson
>
> This is wonderful, Yes, I have a lot of info for her concerning this,
> going back to Prees, Shropshire. Can't do it all in one email.
>
> I've had a web page for Paces of Stockton for several years and just
> checked the FamilySearch.org site. They have added many more PACE entrys
> since I last looked, collected PACE entrys and made the original page.
>
> Stockton,Shropshire in Google search brings up:
> Hodnet Parish Shropshire
> ALBRIGHTON SHIFNAL STOCKTON WORFIELD PATTINGHAM in Shropshire ...
> Dwelling: Cheswardine Lane, Census Place: Stockton, Shropshire.
> www.phc.igs.net/~gordpace/uk/hodnet.htm
>
> I don't think she needs to be disappointed, The PACE ancestry clearly
> goes back to HODNET, then to PREES.
>
> Also, one of my great grandmothers was an EVANS and that name is very
> popular in a place called Brewood, Staffordshire. (pron. brew' od)
> http://www.phc.igs.net/~gordpace/main.htm#aa for a map of it click on
> http://www.achurchnearyou.com/activemap.php?V=4180
> Shareshill will be neaby, at the junction of M54 & M6
> M54 takes you to Shifnal and into Wales, only about 30 miles.
>
> The ancestry of two SARAH PACE entrys goes back to HODNET, Shropshire,
> then to Prees, where my 6X grt.g/f GEORGE PACE was Christened in 1670.
>
> This Sarah Pace looks to be the grandmother of Ellen Evans who was 14
> in the 1881 census, born abt 1866:
>
> SARAH PACE
> Birth: 30 OCT 1786
> Christening: 03 DEC 1786
> Stockton By Bridgnorth, Shropshire
> Father: WILLIAM PACE
> Mother: CATHARINE
> LDS Batch Number: C037493
>
> SARAH PACE
> Christening: 02 FEB 1762
> Stockton By Bridgnorth, Shropshire
> Father: THOMAS PACE
> Mother: JANE
> Batch Number: C037492
>
> More to come as I gather up the new postings on the LDS site.
>
> This Sarah Pace Christening: 02 FEB 1762 ancestry on a web page at:
> http://www.phc.igs.net/~gordpace/uk/stockton.htm
>
> When I made this up from PACE entrys there were only 10 PACE entrys,
> now there are 53 PACE entrys. The LDS is working all the time with
> their volunteers. I do that now and then.
>
> Stockton
> Batch Number: C037491 now has 32 PACE Christenings Batch Number:
> C037492 has 10 (my original 10) Batch Number: C037493 has 21
>
> So there are 53 new PACE Christenings for Stockton, wonderful.
> I'll be busy for a couple hours or more, collecting them and adding to
> what I've already posted.
>
> What's also interesting is that Liz Forrest O'Driscoll says
>
> > my grandfather, who died in his 70s in the early 1950s > in
> Smethwick, Birmingham.
>
> About that time,
> My aunt OLIVE PACE (nee Maund) was mayoress and magistrate of Smethwick
> where Liz Forrest O'Driscoll says her grandfather died in the early
> 1950's. Olive was married to my father's brother Edward Arthur Pace.
> She was always in touch with me because the hospital was bobed the
> night I was born. A nurse GORDON (Scottish surname) looked after my
> mother and me so I was named GORDON. My dad worked for Vickers &
> A.V.Roe aircraft Co. who made Lancaster bombers, Spitfires,
> Hurricanes. Lots of bombing on his way to work at Castle Bromwich,
> Birmingham. I was sent to Canada in late 1940. where my father's people
were since 1926. Enough blather.
> Maybe Liz would like to hear some of it. She must have missed the war
> years but since her grandfather was also in Smethwick, and industrial
> town, I'm sure she'd like to know something about the Pace folks there.
>
> I'll extract the new Stockton PACE entrys.
> Several people from this lineage have already been in touch with me.
> A cousin in Arkansas wrote this morning.
>
> Last month a Les Pace in Finland sent an email. He descends from the
> THOMAS PACE Chr 1805,
> http://www.phc.igs.net/~gordpace/uk/1000.htm#thos1805
> brother to JOSHUA PACE Chr 1808 Laney Green of Shareshill parish,
> Staffordshire. Last April/May, my 2nd cousin, Ann Murphy & husband,
> who still live on the farm where GEORGE PACE settled in the 1720's
> took me to one of the local public houses for dinner. That was a real
treat.
> Sorry for running on, It's always great to hear from a cousin, no
> matter where they are. The PACE name seems to have gone far and wide.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Liz Forrest [mailto:]
> > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 1:47 PM
> > To:
> > Subject: possible Pace descendant query re test
> >
> > Hello, I am a 60 year old widow living in Ireland and just found
> > your webpage when trying to trace the roots of Sarah Pace, of
> > Cheswardine Lane, Stockton, Shropshire (1881 UK Census?) who is
> > listed as having a granddaughter named Ellen Evans, aged 14, who may
> > have been my great-grandmother. I only know her name and that she
> > was a barmaid at the Talbot Arms Inn in Shifnal aged 15, when she
> > became pregnant with my grandfather, who died in his 70s in the
> > early 1950s in Smethwick, Birmingham.
> >
> > My own ancestry is worldwide (my Dad was born in India of mixed
> > ancestry, including Portuguese, British and Indian), but I've
> > discovered that Shifnal or Idsal was noted up until the 1870s for a
> > population whose average age at death could be up to 140 (Post
> > Office records). As two of my great-grandparents are from there and
> > one possibly links to Sarah Pace (Ellen apparently tried to commit
> > suicide aged c. 90 -- one could understand why if all her loved ones
> > were gone and no end in sight), would you be interested in a DNA sample?
> > Unfortunately I cannot afford to pay for it at present -- I've been
> > living in a stone building without electricity for nearly the past
> > two years as it became much too expensive (450 euros each bill and
> > climbing!), but I'm working on a solution. I haven't had the time
> > and money to search and pay for corroborative records, so my
> > apologies if I'm in error. Liz Forrest O Driscoll
> >
> > PS: Does blood type prevalence have any link to this as well? I'm
> > A+ but my sister is AB- as my father was AB, mother 0.
>
>
>



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