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Archiver > PACE > 2007-02 > 1171634926


From: "Lois Long Carey" <>
Subject: Re: [PACE] Proofs for John of M ancestry
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 09:08:46 -0500
References: <000001c75162$2846ec50$022ea8c0@brat>


Roy and all Paces whose DNA is that of John Of M.

About a month ago I wrote to the Fluvanna Review
and asked if anyone in Fluvanna would be willing
to look for the graves of my family who were
buried on the land I still own in Fluvanna.
Just this week , I received a letter from a
Middle School teacher who has a class who does
a project called " Helping Hands"
They spent a day walking my land and found
the remnants of the homeplace where my
grandparents and grgrandparents lived in Fluvanna

They also found what is hopefully the graves
of My grandfather, John Walker Pace b. 1843
in Fluvanna and his son Overton Pace.
I don't know who else might be buried there
but he says he and his class will erect a fence
and some sort of marker to keep them safe
at my expense.
I Wish the Society would find some way to
recognize the kindness of these kids.
I understand they enjoyed the experience
a lot.
Their teacher had read them the letter I wrote
to the newspaper ,saying I would like to find


John Walker Pace was the brother
of Richard Alphonse Pace whose grgrandson
did the DNA test and determined our ancestry.
and is one of those buried there.

Thought the Society and those on the list
might appreciate this wonderful finding.
The last people to live on this land left in
1910, after the murder of Overton Pace,
son of John Walker Pace, grandson of
John R.Pace b. 1809
Does anyone know of a test which can be
done on ground to determine if these are
definitely the graves of my ancestors.

Lois carey
Phoenix, Maryland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roy Johnson" <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: [PACE] Proofs for John of M ancestry


> Jack, since you posted this to the list, I guess I will do the same. It
is,
> after all, relevant to all John of M descendents.
>
> There is one additional piece of evidence that you did not address. You
said
> you will accept that the DNA evidence is that Gordon and the John of M
> descendents are related but how far back?
>
> FTDNA has a tool for estimating this. You take two matching persons, put
in
> the number of years that you know they did NOT have a common ancestor, and
> FTDNA will come back with an estimate of number of years within which they
> likely had a common ancestor with a percentage of accuracy estimate.
>
> FTDNA estimates that there is an 85% chance the common ancestor of Gordon
> and 6739 occurred less than 350 years ago. Gordon's ancestor George was
born
> 337 years ago. John of M had to be born in a similar time span. That
means
> that, if FTDNA is correct, there is an 85% chance that the common ancestor
> is their father, since their grandfather or further back would have to be
> more than 350 years ago. The only good candidate in England in that time
> span is John b. 1665.
>
> To me this is added evidence that John of M and George are brothers.
>
> I do not believe in the absolutes of "proven" or "not proven" Nothing is
> ever 100% proven. I prefer to assign a percentage, but that is very
> subjective. Right now, I am thinking that, with the DNA evidence, naming
> patterns, and dates coinciding, that they were brothers, and that John of
M
> is John 1665 Shropshire is at least 85% probable.
>
> What is your opinion of the FTDNA evidence?
>
> Roy
>
> Roy
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [mailto:] On
Behalf
> Of
> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 2:53 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [PACE] Proofs for John of M ancestry
>
>
> I have studied Gordons (Canada) George Pace lineage and will accept it if
in
> fact he has documented it starting from himself back to Shropshire Paces.
> His DNA match would indicate that this line is connected to John Pace of
> Middlesex. I'm not sure at what point this lineage connects. As far as
John
> Pace 1665 I do not see conclusive evidence that Josuah and Joseph chr. 07,
> June 1618 were the same person and a son of Rowland.
> annnd farther to John Pace 1665. Gordons words " Joshah thought to be
> Joseph, father of John Pace chr. 1665." For me to concede that
Josush/Joseph
> who married Margaret Palmer was the father of John of Middlesex County
> Virginia demands some hard evidence. I quote from a Gordon E-Mail " It
looks
> obvious to me, they changed from Joshua to Joseph when he went from parish
> to parish. Determining this is made easy by the very few PACE entrys.
> collected after searching all the local parishes in North Shopshire
parishes
> and finding these Pace christerings.
> Your comments concenin naming pattern, while a indicator, is not evidence
of
> relationship. A Price family in Middlesex have children named very close
to
> John of Middlesex, however no family connection is found.
> One of Gordons web pages indicates that Sarah Pace Davis married Randolph
> Roads in 1724, Randolph Roads and Sarah DAVIES married 27, Nov. 1724. All
> Middlesex records record Sarah as Sarah Davis and not as Sarah
DAVIES.There
> were several Davis, Davies families in Middlesex during this period. Jack
> Pace / Wmsburg,Va.
> On Fri, 2 Feb 2007 14:47:59 -0600 "Roy Johnson" <>
> writes:
> > Jack,
> >
> > I have seen your posts questioning some of Gordon's evidence about the
> > Shropshire Paces. I have not had time to review everything but I have
> > checked some of it. I have a couple of observations and questions for
> > you.
> >
> > First, do you accept the evidence that John of Middlesex was John of
> > Shropshire born 1665?
> >
> > This is as far as I had taken it previously. Although there is no
> > paper record, to me a mountain of circumstantial evidence can be just
> > as strong, and there is certainly a mountain of circumtantial evidence
> > in this case.
> >
> > How likely is it that two people (John of M and George of Shropshire
> > b.
> > 1770) living a continent apart would name five of their children with
> > exactly the same given names and in the same order?
> >
> > Add in these facts: (1) John of Shropshire's 1665 birth date is
> > withing the parameters set by Ruth Keys Clark for the birth date of
> > John of M.
> > (2)
> > Gordon Pace of Canada's DNA matches perfectly with the John of M
> > submitters
> > (3) Gordon has proven ancestry to the above George b. 1770.
> >
> > It would seem to me that the odds of all of these known facts
> > occurring by sheer coincidence are very great. How great would be
> > anyone's guess, but at least 100 to 1.
> >
> > Do you accept the evidence so far?
> >
> > Secondly, Gordon submits the following:
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------
> > * * JOHN PACE
> > - Chr 22 Sep 1665
> > WROCKWARDINE, Shropshire
> > - Father JOSEPH PACE
> > - Mother MARGARET - P006621
> >
> > * * GEORGE PACE
> > - Chr 28 May 1670
> > PREES, Shropshire
> > - Father: JOSEPH PACE
> > - Mother not mentioned
> >
> > but George's 1st child also named MARGARET
> >
> > ----------------------
> >
> > This seems valid to me. So it appears John and George were the
> > children of Joseph Pace and Margaret, although the Palmer surname is
> > not proven here.
> >
> > Also, both John of M and George of Shropshire named children Joseph
> > and Margaret.
> >
> > Do you accept this evidence so far? If not, why not?
> >
> > I have not checked out the Rowland Pace connection but my impression
> > at present is that this is shaky.
> >
> > Roy Johnson
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [mailto:]
> > On Behalf
> > Of
> > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 11:39 PM
> > To:
> > Cc:
> > Subject: Re: [PACE] RE- I am under the impression this will pass
> > Muster ASGenealogy??
> >
> > According to the Christ Church Parish Register, Middlesex County Va.
> > Stephen Johnson, son of William and Margaret,born 1, Feb. 1740/1.
> > Margaret Pace his mother was also born in Middlesex County Va."
> > Margaret
> > Pace daughter of John and Elizabeth bapt. 15, Mar. 1701/2. She may
> > have been born earlier for all children were not bapt. at their birth.
> > William Johnson and Margaret Pace married 26, Sept. 1721. She would
> > have been about 20 years old. You guess that he was born in 1700
> > sounds logical.
> > Joseph Pace brother to Margaret ad a daughter Susannah who was born
> > about [NP] 1740 in Goochland Co. Va. The Johnsons and Joseph pace
> > families lived close to each other on Little Byrd Creek. William
> > Johnson purchased from Chas. Bond of Goochland Co. Va. 250 acres for
> > 18 pounds. The deed was recorded 20, April 1736. Joseph Pace was a
> > witness.Goochland Co.Va.
> > Wills and deeds 1726-1736 p. 75. As you can see there is a slight area
> > for concern for if Wm. Johnson purchased land in 1736 in Goochland and
> > Stephen Johnson was born in Middlesex in 1741 how do we account for
> > the 5 year difference. Like your thoughts???? Jack Pace/Wms.burg Va.
> >
> > On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 03:04:49 EST writes:
> > > Starting abt. William Johnson B <ca> 1700 Middlesex County Va.
> > M.
> > > Margaret
> > > Pace Bapt. 3/15/1701 To Son
> > > Stephen Johnson b 2/1/1741 Goochland Co Va. D. Amherst Co Married
> >
> > > Susannah Pace B. <ca> 1740 D After 1813 in Nelson County,
> > >
> > > Stephen Johnson B. 1783 Amherst Co. Va. M. Elizabeth Perry,
> > There
> > > were 8 Children.
> > >
> > > NOW Naming # of them.
> > >
> > > #- 1 My 2nd Grt Grand Father; George Rodney Johnson B.
> > > 1819 Died 1914 In the C. S. A. There Pension records.
> > >
> > > #- 2 Uncle, Lawson W. Johnson - Enrolled for Active Service on
> > > May/11/1861 Last Pay Sept/1 1861 sent home With Typhoid Fever &
> > Died
> > > in Rockbridge Co va OCT/27.1861
> > >
> > > #- 3 Uncle Stephen Gordon Johnson, Went through the War & Lost
> > an
> > > Arm.
> > >
> > > WHAT ever the war was called, it is a recorded Fact That the
> > Pace
> > > Family Connected Johnsons Paid a Price.
> > >
> > > OH YEA <PS> I find a Very good method of Keeping Fresh Greens is
> > to
> > > Cut the top from a gallon Milk Jug, Fill with Green's & run all of
> > the
> > > Water that you can get & Freez.
> > >
> > > Later when Used Thaw, Fresh Green's
> > >
> > > OH & I am Sure G. G. Grand Pa George Rodney Johnson
> > > AS well as his Grand Ma Susannah Pace Johnson ET Greens too.
> > THIS
> > > C. S. A.
> > > INFORMATION on G. G. Grt Uncle Lawson Johnson was Done BY A Pro,
> > I
> > > have a 30 page print out on Lawson Johnson.
> > >
> > > CUZ A T <>
> > >
> > > -------------------------------
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> > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message
> > >
> >
> > It is indeed a desirable thing to be well decended,
> > but the glory belongs to our ancestors. Plutarch.
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------
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> >
>
> It is indeed a desirable thing to be well decended, but
> the glory belongs to our ancestors. Plutarch.
>
>
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