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From: "Nelson R. Sulouff" <>
Subject: Re: [PADAUPHI] Johann and Hans
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 16:26:21 -0700
References: <65.4074286b.2f5b66c9@aol.com> <001b01c521cb$558d79e0$6400a8c0@homep4> <006201c521d3$04f665c0$2f783b42@jmosman>


Hello Jay,

First, let me be clear about the fact that St. John's name was spelled at least four different ways in 17-19th C. German baptisms, viz., Johannes, Johann, Hans and, less frequently, Johannis, as it appears in the Martin Luther translation. (Strictly speaking, Hans is really an abbreviation of the longer spellings.) All these spellings are classified as "saint" names when given at baptisms. I'm inclined to agree that when a child was given the name Johannes without a middle name, German parents intended that he should be called Johannes in the German-speaking world.

I have been told by professional history researchers that when 17th-19th C. Germans named their child Johannes, such a child did not receive a second name. I have found this to be customarily true. However, in all of my searching, I have found two instances where a male child was given the baptismal (first) name spelled Johannes and he also received a different middle name. I estimate that would compute to less than 1% of the cases where I have seen a child given the baptismal name, Johannes. Customs can be described by generalizations, but customs were not necessarily followed without deviation.

Finally, let's be clear that when a child was named Johannes by German parents, the parents surely expected that child would be called Johannes, and not John, in a German setting. Only if that child moved into an English-speaking setting would his name be translated to John. I doubt that any German parents who named their son Johannes did so in anticipation that in the future he would be called John. The name change would come about only when the person moved from a German culture into an English culture. The same person, named Johannes, would most likely end up being called Iannis in a Greek cultural setting, or Ian in a Scottish cultural setting. We should expect that the name Johann, and perhaps even Hans, might also be translated into the language of any adopted non-Germanic culture.

I hope this is clear and accurate and helps a bit.

Nelson R. Sulouff
////////////////////////////
----- Original Message -----
From: Jay M. Osman
To:
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [PADAUPHI] Johann and Hans


Nelson,
Can you confirm or deny when the spelling 'Johannes' was used the parents
intended the child to go by that name - John - rather than giving the name
Johan Johan and then dropping the saint name. In other words the child to be
name 'John' was spelled Johannes and not given a saint name. I have seen
this claimed and disclaimed.
Thanks,
Jay

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