PENNINGTON-L Archives

Archiver > PENNINGTON > 2000-07 > 0963339777


From: "Sandy Shatley" <>
Subject: Re: [PENNINGTON-L] Are some of us Radcliffes?
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 18:22:57 GMT


Shirley,
and I thought it was interesting & great fun to find all of the Shatley's
that have married Pennington's (here in the US) throughout the years -- this
is amazing!
Thanks for sharing this.

Sandy Shatley


>From: "Shirley Erickson" <>
>Reply-To:
>To:
>Subject: Re: [PENNINGTON-L] Are some of us Radcliffes?
>Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:30:31 -0500
>
>I find this fascinating. Can you give us even more? It has long been my
>belief that one should research from every possible way until links are
>found.
>
>Thanks for this very interesting lineage. Shirley Erickson
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <>
>To: <>
>Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 11:11 AM
>Subject: [PENNINGTON-L] Are some of us Radcliffes?
>
>
> > Pennington ancestry: The non-Gamelcentric view.
> > ANCESTORS AND DESCENDANTS OF ADAM de PENNINGTON OF PENNINGTON IN
>LEIGH
> > LANCASHIRE, ENGLAND: a fanciful pedigree yet based on historical
>fact.
> >
> > This article was inspired by a recent paper that I read in the
> > American Journal of Human Genetics by a Professor at Oxford called
> > Bryan Sykes. He found that surnames could essentially be traced
>from
> > signatures in the Y-chromosome that is passed on with the same
>pattern
> > as surnames. It is remarkable that a study of several surnames has
> > turned up only one genetic signature in the Y-chromosome confirming
> > that there was only one progenitor of many surnames. This got me
> > thinking about some old bits of Pennington genealogy that have been
> > ignored, perhaps because of their early remoteness in time. Second,
>it
> > highlights the neglected fact that there are really two early
> > Lancashire origins of the Pennington surname and most likely we
>will
> > not all be shown to be ultimately derived from Gamel de Pennington
>and
> > the Muncaster family.
> > We will see below that the spelling of the name/place Pininton
> > gradually over the centuries evolved into Pennington. This article
>is
> > really for those who are puzzled when their researches uncover a
> > consistent early spelling of Pin(n)ington in their family tree and
>a
> > location of origin near Leigh Lancashire.
> > The main fact underlying the part of this article that might be
>called
> > a flight of fancy is that Hugh de Radcliffe assumed the name of his
> > wife Margery de Pininton on their wedding. This might be explained
>by
> > the fact that Margery owned the manor of "Pennington" near Leigh
>that
> > was a land grant from Simon de Bedford 1122 AD. (Victoria County
> > History of Lancashire). Thus if one traces the descent of the
> > Y-chromosome rather than the surname, the ancestors of Adam de
> > Pennington were really named de Radcliffe and before this, if we
> > accept the Radcliffe pedigree, de Taillebois.
> >
> > First a few words about the forgotten Pennington we hear so little
> > about:
> >
> > PENNINGTON Pininton, Pynynton, 1246,1360; Penynton, 1305;
>Pynyngton,
> > 1351, 1442; Penyngton, 1443.
> >
> > There is no village of Pennington in West Derby Hundred; the whole
>of
> > the ancient manor is now within the town of Leigh half way between
> > Manchester and Liverpool. It contains an area of 1,482 acres, but
> > several landmarks remember the name Pennington (the modern
>spelling).
> >
> > It is noteworthy to me that Aston-by-Sutton Cheshire, where my
> > ancestors came from c1635, is 10 or 15 miles from Leigh in Lancs.
>It
> > has also been hypothesized that the spelling Pin(n)ington ties a
> > family directly to Leigh in Lancashire. In early records this place
> > was spelt always with one "n" and sometimes with an "i" or a "y".
>The
> > earliest recorded spelling of my surname is Pinington.
> > If all Penington/Pin(n)ingtons originating in SW Lancashire near
> > (Leigh) are descended from Adam de Pennington (as conjectured in
>the
> > book "Surnames of Lancashire" by R.A. McKinley) their ancestors, in
> > chronological order, would include:
> >
> >
> > 1. Ivo de TAILLEBOIS - Earl of Anjou -Baron of Kendal abt 1085.
> > Ivo was born 1020 in Anjou, or Normandy, France. He died 1094.
> > Went to England with William the Conqueror in 1066. He had the
> > following child:
> > Aelfred de TAILBOIS "The Englishman" was born
> > 1045 likely in Normandy, France.
> >
> > Ivo married again about 1084 - (2) Countess Lucy Malet daughter of
> > Earl Aelfger and granddaughter of Gruffydd, King of Wales who was
>born
> > about 1065 of Mercia, England. After Ivos death in 1094
> > Lucy married (2) Roger FITZ GEROLD.
> > Lucy Married (3) Ranulph de Meschin - Earl of Chester d. 1129
> >
> >
> > 2. Aelfred de TAILLEBOIS "The Englishman" was born 1045 in Anjou,
> > or Normandy, France. Aelfred is probably the product of a previous
> > marriage in Normandy.
> > He had the following children:
> > 3. Ketel was born about 1065. Ketel married (1)
> > Christina. Christina was born about 1065.
> > Ketel or Chetel & Christina had at least 2 sons:
> >
> > * i. Gilbert de Frunesco TAILLEBOIS was born 1070.
> > ii. William de Taillebois (later changed his name by
> > order of the King to William de Lancaster.
> >
> >
> > 4. Gilbert de Frunesco TAILLEBOIS was born 1070 of Furness county
>in
> > Lancashire. Gilbert later went by the name Gilbert de Lancaster.
> > Gilbert married (1) Goditha about 1090. Goditha was born about
>1072.
> > They had the following children:
> > William Fitz Gilbert - de LANCASTER was born about 1095 in England
> > *ii.Nicholas Fitz Gilbert - de RADECLIVE was born 1097/1100.
> >
> > 5.Nicholas de RADECLIVE was born 1097/1100 in England. A knight who
> > was given the Manor of Radeclive from his lord, and may have built
> > Radcliffe Tower, in the village of Radcliffe in Lancashire,
>England.
> > Nicholas took the name "de Radcliffe" meaning of or from Radcliffe.
> > Radcliffe Lancs is not 5 miles from Leigh in Lancs. Eventually the
> > last name Taillebois was dropped and Radcliffe took its place in
>the
> > family lineage. Nicholas married (1) Lady the Booths before 1124.
>Lady
> > the Booths was born about 1100.
> > They had the following children:
> > i.Matthew RADECLIVE or Fitz Gilbert was born about
> > 1122 in Lancashire, England.
> > * ii. Henry de RADECLIVE or Radcliffe was born 1124/1126 and
>died
> > before 1190.
> > iii. Simon de RADECLIVE or Fitz Gilbert was born about 1128
>in
> > Lancashire, England.
> >
> >
> > 6.Henry de RADECLIVE or Radcliffe was born 1124/1126 in Lancashire,
> > England. He died before 1190. He had the following children:
> > i.Richard de RADECLIVE was born about 1162 in Lancashire, England.
> > * ii. William de RADECLIVE or Radcliffe was born 1164 and died
> > 1220.
> > iii. John de RADECLIVE was born about 1166 in Lancashire, England.
> >
> >
> > 7.William de RADECLIVE or Radcliffe was born 1164 in Lancashire,
> > England. He died 1220. He was appointed High Sheriff of Lancaster
>in
> > 1194 by Richard the Lionhearted and was one of twelve trust knights
>of
> > the shire. William married (1) Cecilia MONTBEGON about 1186.
>Cecilia
> > was born about 1165 in Lancashire, England.
> > They had the following children:
> > i. Adam de RADCLYFFE was born about 1188 and died 1250.
> > ii. Geoffrey de RADECLIVE was born about 1190 in England.
> > *iii. Hugh de RADECLIVE was born about 1192 in Lancashire, England.
> >
> >
> > 8. Hugh de Radcliffe Married Margery de Pininton daughter of
>Richard
> > de Pininton (living 1220) who may have been the Lord of the Manor
>of
> > Pennington in Leigh. Hugh assumed the name de Pennington because
> > Margery was granted the Manor (about 1500 acres), by Simon de
>Bedford
> > before 1221). Children included Richard and William. Note that
>printed
> > sources of the lineage of this family switch over to the modern
> > spelling of Pennington after Margery.
> >
> > 9. Richard de Pennington in 1246 inherited the manor of Pennington,
> > while his brother William inherited all of Heartshead Co York.
>Richard
> > married and his son was Adam.
> >
> > 10. Adam de Pennington (died in 1309) married Joan ......... and
>had
> > one daughter Joan who married Roger de Badshagh son of Richard de
> > Bradshagh and they were given one half of the manor of Pennington
>in
> > Leigh. Thus the manor passed to the Bradshagh and other families.
> >
> > 11. Adam de Pennington also had three sons by an Elota Crakebone,
>Hugh
> > (living 1301) Richard and Adam. Records show that Richard and Adam
> > partially owned Pennington 1330-1350. It is from these three
> > Penningtons Hugh, Richard and Adam, who were granted land by their
> > father, that the Penington/Pin(n)ington families concentrated
>around
> > Leigh in Lancashire are said to be descended? In 1338 a Richard,
>son
> > of William de Pennington, is mentioned in this time period and
>these
> > may have been descendants. A look at the IGI using the surname
> > variations discussed above shows that there were probably more
> > Peningtons/Piningtons living near Leigh, Lancs than near Pennington
>in
> > Lonsdale hundred from where the Muncaster Penningtons originated.
> >
> > Proof of this somewhat fanciful pedigree would be possible
>nowadays.
> > To do this a genetic analysis of the Y-chromosomes from a single
>cheek
> > cell of a random sample of Penningtons and Radcliffes, including
>some
> > Peningtons/Pin(n)ingtons who originated from SW Lancashire, should
> > produce a signature in common with Radcliffe descendants of Adam
>and
> > Geoffrey de Radcliffe (generation 7). My prediction is that there
>will
> > be at least two signatures in the DNA of the male Penningtons, one
>of
> > them could be Gamel de Pennington's and the other may be Ivo de
> > Tallebois's! In addition unfortunately 50% of us will not have
>either
> > signature due to the accumulation of early non-paternity events
>(Sykes
> > and Irven, 2000).
> >
> > Sources
> > Victoria County History of Lancashire, West Derby Hundred,
>Pennington.
> > Hampson, Charles P.. The Book of the Radclyffes. Being an account
>of
> > the main descents of this illustrious family from its origin to the
> > present day, compiled from a variety of sources, including public
> > records and private evidences. [With plates.]
> > Publisher: pp. xxv. 317. T. & A. Constable: Edinburgh, 1940. 4o.
> > Sykes B and Irven C Surnames and the Y Chromosome, (2000) Am. J.
>Hum.
> > Genet. 66:1417-1419.
> >
> > Nicholas J Penington PRA member
> >
> >
> > ==== PENNINGTON Mailing List ====
> > The Pennington Research Association Web Site
> > http://penningtonresearch.org
> > for subscribe and unsub instructions,
> > follow the links to e-mail group.
> >
>
>
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