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From: The Williams Family <>
Subject: [PDP] Re: Plantagenet - a "sort of" surname
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 17:20:04 -0700
References: <200207122118.g6CLIWRk029711@lists2.rootsweb.com>


Sir,

In two of your recent messages you have stated that your motives & goals have been
misinterperated. If so, what are your reasons for researching "plant-like surnames" and the
descendants of Geoffrey V and what are your goals in this research?
If it is the general opinion of the list that this thread has gone somewhat off topic I will be
more than glad to resume it with you on the GEN-MEDIEVAL-L Rootsweb list which is gated to the
soc.gen.med newsgroup. It is definitely on topic there.

>
> >
> > This seems to be a case of shifting the burden of proof. It was you
> > who provided the (incomplete) source citation: "Close Rolls, reign
> > of Henry III). Unless you want to give the precise location in that
> > source, it becomes a research project in itself to find this.
>
> Quite so. There are many references to Plantagenet in the index to
> the Close Rolls but most of these do not mention the Plantagenet name
> explicitly in the entries themselves. A rare exception is the
> following. In the General Index to the bound volume for the Close
> Rolls for 1254-68 there is the entry..
>
> Plantegenet, Geoffrey, serjeant at arms, page 275
>
> The entry itself (in medieval Latin) includes the name Galfrido
> Plauntegenet.

What is the text of the entry? The index is a secondary source which provides very little
information. Though my Latin isn't as good as I'd like it to be I'll be glad to make a stab at
translation.

>
>
> I might add that it seems to me to be a
> little hard to imagine that Richard duke of York assumed a surname in
> 1448 that, just by coincidence, happened to be nothing more than the
> surname of a minor palace official in 1266.

He assumed the name because he was a male-line descendant of Geoffrey V "Plantagenet," Comte
d'Anjou. There is ample evidence for this fact.

>
>
> > Certainly if the name Galfrido Plauntegenet does appear in a
> > primary source, it's an interesting clue and should be thoroughly
> > researched.
>
> There are theories about the identity of Galfrido Planatagenet. These
> are speculative theories however and they are not in the category of
> "proven genealogical fact" which is what some of you seem to wanting.

What theories do you have? Any theory is worth at least looking at and if it turns out to be
"proven genealogical fact" then so much the better.

>
>
> --
> .
> . John S Plant PhD MBCS MIDI KLUO
> . Chartered Information Systems Practitioner
> .......unifying cerebral creativity with intelligent algorithms
> Tel.(01782)58 3064 : :: Computing Services,
> Fax.(01782)58 3636 : ::: Keele Information Services.
> .....Dr.J.S.Plant,Computing Services,Keele University,Staffordshire,ST5 5BG.

Sincerely,
Kelsey J. Williams


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