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Archiver > POSEN > 2004-04 > 1083280396


From: "Jay and Diana" <>
Subject: RE: [POSEN] nationality and the language they spoke. . .
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:13:16 -0700
In-Reply-To: <00a501c42e20$de530370$5174bc42@DHXFLH41>


Tom, I'm pretty certain that they would be considered babies. :-) (Or
perhaps a few frustrated mothers.....)

Diana Grzelak Needham

There is always a song for those who wish to sing


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Krajewski [mailto:]
> Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 12:34 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [POSEN] nationality and the language they spoke. . .
>
> One wonders the age of those who only shriek and babble.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 2:08 PM
> Subject: [POSEN] nationality and the language they spoke. . .
>
>
> | The following from "God's Playground, A History of Poland"; Vol II,
p
> 132;
> | Copyright 1982, Norman Davies.
> |
> | The idea that the population of the Kingdom could be categorized
> according
> | to the language which they spoke was entirely alien to the pre-
> nationalist
> | era. In 1835, in response to one of the earliest attempts to
conduct a
> | linguistic survey, the squire of Langenau. . .in Mazuria, Samuel von
> Polenz,
> | penned the following return:
> |
> | 'On these properties, there are 52 persons of the male kind and 59
of
> the
> | female kind, who have command of both the Polish and the German
> languages.
> | 8 persons of the male kind and 11 of the female kind, who can speak
> properly
> | in Polish only, but who can mouth a few broken words in German; 15
> persons
> | of the male kind and 12 of the female kind who speak exclusively in
> German;
> | one male who speaks German, Latin, French, and Hebrew, and another
who
> | speaks Russian; and 16 persons of the male kind and 19 of the female
> kind
> | who as yet neither speak nor read any language at all, but merely
shriek
> and
> | babble. . .'
> |
> | -----Original Message-----
> | From: Ray Marshall [mailto:]
> | Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 12:48 PM
> | To:
> | Subject: RE: [POSEN] Corrected maps and County Map
> |
> |
> | Thank you, Thomas.
> |
> | And . . .
> |
> | Is it any wonder that many of our barely literate and yet
tri-lingual
> | (Polish, German, English and maybe more) ancestors obstinately kept
> | declaring their nationality to be Polish on U.S. Census forms.
> |
> | They didn't know who they belonged to.
> |
> |
> | Ray Marshall
> | Minneapolis
> | (Marszalkiewicz)
> |
> |
> | -----Original Message-----
> | From: Thomas Rueffer [mailto:]
> | Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 11:37 AM
> | To:
> | Subject: [POSEN] Corrected maps and County Map
> |
> |
> | Hi all,
> |
> | sorry for all the confusion I caused about the Netze District and
thank
> you
> | for all
> | your input to the maps. I added the area of the Netze District to
the
> 1789
> | map,
> | corrected the 1815 map, and also corrected a word in the legend of
the
> map
> | 2000
> | (Grosspolen instead of Kleinpolen, thank you James).
> |
> | I have added a county map for the time before the counties were
divided
> (but
> | only for
> | the District Posen, I have no pre-1887 county map for the District
> Bromberg,
> | does
> | anyone has such a map?) and a text with statistical data for the
> counties.
> |
> | Thomas
> | www.tr62.de/poznan.html
> |
> | Netze District
> |
> | A. First Partition of Poland
> | In 1772 Prussia acquired from Poland "West Prussia together with the
> Netze
> | District"
> | [as it is written in a German enyclopedia from 1878 where all
> territories
> | Prussia
> | gained and lost in history are listed]. The original German term for
> | "together with"
> | (= nebst) sounds as is if the Netze District did (originally) not
belong
> to
> | West
> | Prusia but had something to do with it (if the Netze District would
have
> | been
> | completely indepedent unit it would be listed as an own point) -
that
> fits
> | with J
> | French: "West Prussia ... with a separate administrative unit for
the
> Netze
> | district".
> | This 1772 Netze District included the later District of Bromberg
(except
> of
> | it
> | southernmost part with the towns Gnesen and Wongrowitz) and parts of
the
> | later
> | Province of West Prussia north of Schneidemuehl (with Deutsch Krone,
> Flatow
> | and
> | Schlochau as Charles Gohlke, Thomas Oszinda and J French already
wrote).
> | This Netze
> | area is shown in a published map for the year 1789 (and now also in
my
> | corrected
> | online map).
> |
> | B. Peace of Tilsit
> | In 1807 Napoleon divided this Netze District: the nothern part
(north of
> | Schneidemuehl) remained Prussian (and was mapped as part of West
Prussia
> in
> | published
> | map for the years 1807-1815). The southern part of the Netze
District
> (with
> | the Netze
> | River) became Polish again.
> |
> | C. Congress of Vienna
> | In 1815 Prussia became the lost southern part of the Netze District
> back,
> | but as
> | Adalbert Goertz already wrote it was not re-established as an
> administrative
> | unit. The
> | northern part remained a part of West Prussia, and the southern part
was
> | given to the
> | new Province of Posen (I believe to what Charles Gohlke wrote and
most
> the
> | published
> | maps show indeed the same). Therefore the original Netze District
was
> | devided between
> | West Prussia and Posen (Adalbert Goertz). I have therefore corrected
the
> | 1815 map. I
> | have no idea about the administration units within Posen in 1815
(e.g.,
> | since when the
> | Bromberg and Posen districts were existing).
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> | ==== POSEN Mailing List ====
> | === Have time to extract records? Submit them to the Prussia GenWeb
> site!
> | http://www.rootsweb.com/~deupru/index.htm
> |
> |
> | ==== POSEN Mailing List ====
> | === Help us create a complete towns database. No special knowledge
> needed.
> | Look up data at one site, paste it into ours.
> | http://www.posen-l.com/CatholicDbBrowse.html
> |
> |
> |
> |
> | ==== POSEN Mailing List ====
> | === Catholic Parish database: 6000+ Posen towns, organized by
Catholic
> parish,
> add. info added daily! Advanced search features, Polish & German
names,
> old &
> new! http://www.posen-l.com/CatholicDbBrowse.html
> |
> |
>
>
>
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> === Submit your information to the Posen-L website and get your own
> webpage, with your Surnames added to the Surnames index.
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