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Archiver > POWYS > 2003-07 > 1058855016


From: Anthony Francis <>
Subject: Re: [POWYS] Registration districts
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:23:36 -0700
In-Reply-To: <002501c34ed5$5c53c420$df4218d4@pbncomputer>


Subject: Re: [POWYS] Registration districts
Hi Liz and Margaret,
This profusion of Pennants is such a confusion!
When I heard that my Thomas Francis stated on his 1795 marriage bond that
he was from Pennant, I scoured both Pennant-Melangell and the Pennant 8
miles east of Machynlleth. There were FRANCISs at the latter but no obvious
connections. I was helped my many on this and the Clwyd list, particularly
Ann Watt of Edinburgh, who discovered Thomas' father's will at the NLW "I
Thomas Francis of Cefncoch in the parish of Pennant do make this my last
Will and Testament..."
It took me well over a year to spot, on the ordnance survey map, 3 miles
east of Llangynog, the name Pennant at SJ100248, just north of the river
Tannat, 1.6 miles south-west of Llanrhaeadr ym Mochnant. It lies just below
a farm called Garthgelynen-fawr at SJ099251. This farm has a long history
of occupation by FRANCISs, including my Thomas Francis born 1769, a
Humphrey and Hugh Francis born about 1690, and a Jon Francis born about
1665. My links to these latter are unknown and they may in turn, have been
patronymic.
Thomas Francis' sister Ann, born 1767, married David Roberts of Cadnant
in 1790 at Llanrhaeadr ym Mochnant. Cadnant is another very old farm at
SJ086259, less than 1 mile north-west of Garthgelynen-fawr. The present
residence, which is ancient, has an even older residence across the
farm-yard, now used for storage.
About 1/2 mile north of Garthgelynen and 1/2 mile east of Cadnant is
another farm called Gwernen-lydan SJ097258. I think this is the place you
are looking for. Welcome home neighbour! I think you'll find your records
in Llanrhaeadr ym Mochnant, where the parish church sits on the north-east
bank of the Afon Rhaeadr.
I think that this river was the boundary here between Denbighshire and
Montgomeryshire. Half the parish lived in a different county! I have long
wondered why Thomas Francis, 1729-1799, declared "I Thomas Francis of
Cefncoch in the parish of Pennant". I think he was just as confused as the
rest of us! Mind you, he was an occasional warden at Pennant Melangell, so
perhaps this was his declaration of allegiance. I think the dates of events
have a strong bearing on parish memberships, because there were old border
changes here.
Cheers, Tony in White Rock, BC.

-----------------------------------------------------

>>From: "Elizabeth Hughes" <>
>>Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 16:41:15 +0100
>>Subject: [POWYS] Registration districts
>>X-Mailing-List: <> archive/latest/11066
>>Hi Margaret
>>Thanks for the info. I do believe that its the HUGHES family that live at
>>Wernenlydan, as I know that THOMAS had a brother DAVID.
>>What I can't find out is what district PENNANT would come under to look
>>for the birth certificate. I have looked in the LLANFYLLIN areas, and
>>have sent away for them, but they are all the wrong THOMAS'.
>>It's just not knowing wether it is PENNANT MELANGELL which is near
>>LLANRAIADR YM, or PENNANT near MACHYNLLETH.
>>The only other thing I can do is actually go to LLANFYLLIN Registry
>>Office and ask them to look for me. Perhaps that one record wasn't given
>>to the LDS
>>I am open to any ideas you may have though
>>Thanks
>>Liz

--------------------------------------------------------

>From: "Brian Harvey" <>
>Subject: Re: [POWYS] Registration districts
>Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 19:26:40 +0100
>X-Mailing-List: <> archive/latest/11068
>Hi,
>There is a Pennant and Pennant Melangell just to the west of Llangynog in
north Montgomeryshire and this is the area where Thomas was living. There
were several properties with the name Wernenlydan so it might be a row of
houses or a small area although I can't find it on a map.
>There are three District Register Offices for Montgomeryshire, Machynlleth,
Newtown and Welshpool and Llanfyllin. Llanrhaeadr-ym-Mochant is also in
Montgomeryshire
>I know in some cases that registration was actually in a different county to
where the event took place. For instant I was looking for a marriage in
Llanwrthwl, Breconshire and it was registered in Llandrindod Wells,
Radnorshire because it was close to the Rhayader in Radnorshire where
details could be registered. This could be the case with Pennant although I
have just looked further and found this on the Free BMD website.
>Llanfyllin
>Created 1st July 1837. Mainly in Montgomeryshire, but included parts of
Denbighshire.
>Sub-districts : Llanfair; Llanrhaiadr; Llansaintffraid.
>GRO volumes : XXVII (1837-51); 11b (1852-1930).
>Carreghova (from 1844), Cefnienyd, Collfryn, Deythur, Garthbeibio,
Guilsfield (from 1856), Hirnant, Llandrinio, Llandysilio, Llanerchila,
Llanerfyl, Llanfair-Caereinion, Llanfechan, Llanfihangel, Llanfyllin,
Llangadfan, Llangrynog, Llangyniew, Llanrhaiadr-yn-Mochnant,
Llansaintffraid, Llanwddyn, Meifod, Pennant, Tredderwenfawr, Trewylan.
>Registers now in Welshpool and Llanfyllin and Wrexham districts.
>I hope the above helps.
>Regards,
>Margaret


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