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Archiver > POWYS > 2005-11 > 1131496550


From: John German <>
Subject: Re: [POWYS] Trefeglwys: one parish study
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 19:35:50 -0500
References: <200511081918.jA8JIqhD017089@pml.rootsweb.com>
In-Reply-To: <200511081918.jA8JIqhD017089@pml.rootsweb.com>


Our sample from a descendant of one of the Jerman families of Llanidloes
has a peculiar pattern of DNA markers that indicates an ancient male
line ancestor somewhere along the northern Irish Sea. This family did
not come from the continent in historical times - it is native. But alas
that still does not explain how/why they started using the English name
Jerman/Jarman etc.



Jerman Project wrote:

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> Subject: Re: [POWYS] Trefeglwys: one parish study
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>
> Anthony,
>
> Thanks for your thoughts. I don't really think Jerman/Jarman has much to do
> with being "German" - that is, in the way we use the word to denote people
> coming from what we call (in English) Germany. English is I think the only
> language which does this. Rather I think the origin is from the original
> European "Germain" as in, for example, the historical figure, Saint
> ermain - who was French - and hence the eponymous Parisian boulevard and
> football team - or some such variant, but nothing to do with "Germany".
> Supporting my theory of intrinisic European origin is, for example, the
> concentration of Jermans in the Czech/Slovak republics - and I don't think
> the word "German" exists in Czech. This then leads me to my tentative
> hypothesis that Jermans were indeed foreigners introduced to mid-Wales -
> perhaps Hugenots or Flemish weavers - sometime in the fifteenth century or
> earlier, and that - most importantly - they brought their name with them.
>
> Interestingly, the only other real concentrations of Jerman found
> historically in the UK are in East Anglia and Devon/Somerset - given the
> geography, the implantation there is also supported by a theory of
> trade/migration from Europe. The surprise is how one lot ended up so far
> inland in mid-Wales.
>
> Any other thoughts?
>
> best wishes
>
> Gareth
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Anthony Francis" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 6:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [POWYS] Trefeglwys: one parish study
>
>
>
>>Subject: Re: [POWYS] Trefeglwys: one parish study - Jerman name
>>Hi Gareth,
>>I was interested to see your history of the Jarman/Jerman/German name.
>>At one point you sounded very puzzled why the Jerman/German suddenly
>>became
>>Jarman:
>>"1900 onwards Edward Jerman has six children, one of whom, Daniel Ewart,
>>re-adopted Jarman at some point in his life. . . . For Daniel Ewart to
>>have
>>later changed his name back (to Jarman) - and to essentially repudiate his
>>father's name (which none of his five brothers or sisters did) - simply
>>begs the question of whether he had a heightened sense of history or
>>whether he simply preferred a vernacular rendition."
>> In my MANLEY family of Wrexham, a daughter married a Carl Gaber, who I
>>think was a successful stock exchange trader in Liverpool up until WW1,
>>when his clients took their business elsewhere because of his German
>>connections. I think his sons left for Australia. I imagine there was a
>>lot
>>of that sort of predjudice but perhaps it affected some individuals more
>>than others.
>> I had wondered if the Princes of Wittelsbach, brought over by the king to
>>lead his armies during the civil war in the mid-1600s, might have brought
>>some German soldiers with them, who later settled around Trefeglwys, just
>>as Prince Maurice's aid, Edward Evans settled into Rhyd y carw. But I see
>>from your website, speculation that they go back hundreds of years
>>further,
>>to the resettlement of Flemmish weavers, who might have been thought of by
>>locals as Germans.
>> I'd love to know more details about the 'purchase' of Rhys y carw by
>>Edward Evans. Might it have been a gift as 'spoils of war' for services
>>rendered? Whose was it before the civil war?
>>Cheers, Tony
>>
>>--------------------------------------------
>>
>>>Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 19:18:25 +0000
>>>From: Jerman Project <>
>>>Subject: Re: [POWYS] Trefeglwys: one parish study
>>>X-Mailing-List: <> archive/latest/16521
>>>Alison,
>>>I am very interested in your proposed Trefeglwys site and can perhaps
>>>offer
>>>some material. You may be aware of the Jarman/Jerman web-site I maintain.
>>>There are various Trefeglwys connections throughout the generations,
>>>although because the families were quite widely dispersed in the area, I
>>>have so far preferred to use an overall "Llanidloes" description. What
>>>counts as Trefeglwys proper I don't know - you will have to consider how
>>>extensively you treat the outlying farms etc.
>>>
>>>You will also probably be aware that some of the Ashton links - yours and
>>>others - that have been discussed on this list recently merge in and out
>>>of
>>>the Jermans at various points - in sometimes rather complicated ways.
>>>This
>>>might be worth pursuing as a subject in its own right as branches of these
>>>two families did seem to rather colonise certain parts of the area over
>>>generations.
>>>
>>>I look forward to seeing your first efforts as I feel it is always good to
>>>try and put some social/geographical/economic context with what can be
>>>otherwise rather dull raw genealogical stuff.
>>>
>>>See web-site at http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/jermanproject
>>>Best wishes
>>>Gareth Jones
>>
>>
>

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