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From: Mona Rainville <>
Subject: Re: [Q-R] Jean-Baptiste GOUIN
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 18:32:28 -0400
References: <000a01c7a7dd$d55559a0$6400a8c0@louscomputer>
In-Reply-To: <000a01c7a7dd$d55559a0$6400a8c0@louscomputer>


Hello Dennis and all,

I always expect some reaction, preferably polite, when the old academic
salt that I am comes around to rub against some well encroached theories
and assumptions, taking a more pragmatic, less romantic, look at the facts.

I apologize if my findings have roughed your genealogical feathers,
Dennis. But the documents speak for themselves. I just call'em the way I
see'em.

Nowhere do I suggest that Jean-Baptiste was ever officially married
twice, and was a bigamist. This is your own misreading.

It is an undeniable fact, however, that like so many men who engaged in
the fur trade at this time Jean-Baptiste GOUIN had a legitimate wife
concurrently with a concubine, and that he had children with both of
them. The Summer Wife and the Winter Wife phenomenon is so well
documented that I see no point in engaging in a debate over it. There
was no lesser moral value assigned to this fact of life, then, and it
would seem trite to try and assign one to it now, nearly two centuries
later and using anachronistic standards to do so.

_We know that Jean-Baptiste GOUIN was fathering children with Charlotte
Auger as early as 1710_:

This is what appears from one key document: the Saint-Gabriel-de-Brandon
1852 act of marriage between Jean-Baptiste GOUIN and Charlotte AUGER.

The act, which can found in the parish register filed at the Greffe of
the District of Joliette, reads:

"Ce treize septembre, mil huit cent cinquante deux, après la publication
d'un seul ban de mariage faite au prône de la messe paroissiale entre
Jean Baptiste Gouin, cultivateur, veuf majeur de Jean-Baptiste /- the
name Jean-Baptiste is scratched out -/ Marie Anne Millette de cette
paroisse, d'une part, (la quelle est décédée et inhumée À Lac Sarénac
(/?/) l'an dernier, selon qu'il appert par le certificat de Messire
Roony aout il étoit leprêtre desservant) et Charlotte Auger, domiciliée
en cette paroisse, fille majeure de feu Pierre Auger et de défunte Sara
Hissohouua, des pays hauts; Ne s'étant découvert aucun empechement au
dit mariage et les futurs époux ayant obtenu dispense de deux bans de
mariage de Monseigneur de Montréal, lesquels ayant aussi reconnu pour
leurs enfans légitimes Michel âgé de quarante et un ans, époux légitime
de Marie Pievin, Paul Baptiste, âgé de trente six ans, époux légitime de
Louise Laprade, et Marguerite Gouin, âgée de trente quatre ans, épouse
légitime d'Antoine Paul-Hus, Nous, Prêtre soussigné, avons reçu le
mutuel consentement de Mariage des parties présentes et ce en présence
de David Ste-Antoine, servant de père à l'époux, de Louis Godin,
témoin, de Louis Godin, servant de père à l'épouse, de Théophile
Courtemanche, témoin, et de plusieurs autres qui, ainsi que les époux et
les enfans présens, n'ont su signer. (un mot rayé seul.) P. Dequoy Ptre."

It translates to:

"On this thirteenth of Septembre, Eighteen Hundred and Fifty Two, after
the publication of only one bann of marriage made during the homilies of
the parochial mass between Jean Baptiste Gouin, farmer, major widower of
Jean-Baptiste (/the name Jean-Baptiste was struck out)/ Marie-Anne
Millette of this parish, on the one part, (she having died and been
buried at Lac Sarénac (/?/) last year, as appears from the certificate
issued by Mr. Roony, where he was the ministering priest) and Charlotte
Auger, domiciled in this parish, the major daughter of the deceased
Pierre Auger and of the deceased Sara Hissohouua, from the High
Countries; there having been revealed no impediment to the said
marriage, and the future spouses having obtained dispensation from two
banns of marriage from Monseignor of Montréal, and they having also
recognized as their legitimate children Michel Gouin, fourty one years
of age, the legitimate husband of Marie Piévin, Paul Baptiste, thirty
six years of age, the legitimate husband of Louise Laprade, and
Marguerite Gouin, thirty four years of age, the legitimate wife of
Antoine Paul-Hus; We, the undersigned priest, have received the mutual
consent of marriage of the parties present, and this, in the presence of
David Ste-Antoine, acting as father to the groom, of Louis Godin,
witness, of Louis Godin, acting as father to the bride, of Théophile
Courtemanche, witness, and of many others who, along with the couple and
the children present were unable to sign. (one word struck out only) (s)
P. Dequoy, Priest"

This document names three children born of Jean-Baptiste's out of
wedlock union with Charlotte AUGER:

1. Michel GOUIN, 41 years old in 1852 which makes him born about 1811;
2. _Paul_ Baptiste GOUIN, 36 years old in 1852, so he was born about
1816;
3. and their sister Marguerite GOUIN, 34 years old in 1852, which
makes her born about 1817.

Secondly, this document reveals the year and place of death of Marie
Anne HUS dit MILETTE. It does not tell us, however,what she was doing
there, how long she had been there, who else was with her, or even what
she died of. Those details are simply not part of the 1852 act.

What we do know, though, is that at the time of her death she was still
married to Jean-Baptiste GOUIN, and that her death certificate was
signed by a Mr. Roony, said to be the officiating priest at Saranac Lake
at the time. Did Mr. Roony mail the certificate, or did Jean-Baptiste go
down to pick it up? This, we also don't know.

You propose that Marie-Anne might have attended a sanatorium there for
health reasons. But knowing that the first sanatorium ever built in
Saranac Lake was founded in 1885, more than thirty years after her
death, somewhat dampens my enthusiasm for your theory. No documentary
evidence has yet been found to support that Marie-Anne was ever ill.
You might be right. But for now, it is just your guess work.

Incidentally, the Saranac Lake facility was built to treat tuberculosis,
not neurosis. I'll grant you that it is possible that more rudimentary
facilities might have existed in the Saranac Lake region prior to the
founding of the Dr. E.L. Trudeau cottage Sanatorium, there, in 1885. But
it would have to be demonstrated that such facilities already existed as
early as 1810 when Jean-Baptiste GOUIN was already fathering children
with Charlotte AUGER, or even in 1851 the year Marie-Anne HUS died. Had
Marie-Anne been mentally ill, she most likely would have been sent off
to the Beauport Asilum, just as Louis RIEL was. So again, for the time
being, there is no evidence of Marie-Anne HUS's illness other than your
own conjecture.

_We know that Jean-Baptiste GOUIN had also fathered a child with Marie
Anne Hus prior to marrying her in 1808:_

This we know from Jean-Baptiste GOUIN and Marie Anne HUS dit MILLET
marriage certificate, in Saint-Pierre de Sorel, on February 15, 1808.

In the course of their wedding ceremony, they recognized as their
legitimate child a little boy who had been baptized in the same parish
the month previous.

"L'an mil huit cent huit le quinze février après la publication de trois
bans de mariage au prône des messes paroissiales entre Jean Baptiste
Goin agriculteur fils majeur d'Antoine Goin et de Marguerite
Hus-Cournoyer ses père et mère de cette paroisse d'une part, et Marie
Anne Hus fille majeure de Joseph Hus-Millet et de Magdeleine Péloquin
ses père et mère de cette paroisse d'autre part ... (...)... et ont les
dits époux reconnu pour leur enfant legitime un garçon nommé
Jean-Baptiste baptisé le neuf janvier sous le titre de parants inconnus,
lequel ils veulent entrer en fort et héritages comme ceux qu'ils
pourront avoir...»

Which translates to:

"In the year Eighteen Hundred Eight, on the fifteenth of February, after
the publication of three bans of marriage during the hominies of the
parochial masses between Jean Baptiste Goin farmer major son of Antoine
Goin and Marguerite Hus-Cournoyer his father and mother of this parish,
on the one part, and Marie anne Hus, major daughter of Joseph Hus-Millet
and of Magdeleine Péloquin her father and mother of this parish, on the
other part...(...)... and have, the said spouse, recognized as their own
legitimate child a boy named Jean-Baptiste baptized on the ninth of
January under the guise of parents unknown, to whom they want to confer
the same rights and inheritances as any of the children they will have..."

The little boy, Jean-Baptiste, was baptized in 1808 as follows:

«Le dix neuf janvier mil huit cent huit par moi pretre soussigné curé a
été baptisé Jean Baptiste né hier de parents inconnus Le parrein a été
Pierre Hus, La marreine Marie Louïse Hus qui n'ont su signer. (s) F.
Boissonault, ptre.»

Translated:

"On the nineteenth of January Eighteen Hundred Eight, by me the
undersigned curate was baptized Jean Baptiste born yesterday of unknown
parents. The godfather was Pierre Hus, and the godmother was Marie
Louïse Hus neither of whom could sign. (s) F. Boissonault, priest"

You assume that Marie-Anne HUS was no longer in the picture when
Jean-Baptiste took up with Charlotte AUGER and you explain this by
theorizing that Marie-Anne must have suffered from some debilitating
illness necessitating her being shipped off to some remote location. But
this contradicted by the facts.

Clearly, if not Marie Anne, then her immediate and extensive family was
still very much in the Sorel area and remained in constant contact with
all the GOUIN children, those born out of Jean-Baptiste's union with
Charlotte AUGER and legitimized in 1852, and also with the little
Jean-Baptiste GOUIN born in 1808 who was the son of Marie Anne HUS.
After all, prior to their marriage, Jean-Baptiste GOUIN and Marie Anne
HUS dit MILLET had had to obtain a dispensation for reason of their 3rd
to 4th degree of consanguinity.

The three children of Charlotte AUGER were married in the parish of
Saint-Pierre de Sorel. And at least one of them married into the
extended HUS family.

So, yes, the children of Jean-Baptiste GOUIN's second bed, such as it
was, did co-exist in Sorel with his first family, and such thing was
nothing out of the ordinary, nor considered particularly immoral, in
those days.

Finally, Marie-Anne's assumed lack of children during her marriage can
just as easily be explained by the perennial absence of her husband who,
as it turns out, was fathering children with Charlotte AUGER as early as
1710, less than two years after having fathered a child with Marie-Anne
and marrying her.

Marie Anne had at least one child with Jean-Baptiste GOUIN and perhaps
she had others which we will ultimately find.

Again, sorry if all of this shocks your sensitivities, but these are the
facts, nothing but the facts, for all to see.

Regards,

Mona Andrée Rainville

PS:I find it particularly interesting that you would find it easier to
assume Marie-Anne was somewhat flawed in health or in mind blaming her
for a supposed marital breakdown, rather than accept that Jean-Baptiste
was simply a man of his time. Why is that...?


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