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From: Mona Andrée Rainville <>
Subject: Re: [Q-R] Jean-Baptiste ROY x PARADIS was son of Jean-Baptiste ROYnot Pierre ROY
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2009 21:59:19 -0400
References: <CCEOJBBOBIEELIPNIKCNAECGFCAB.rcummi1123@rogers.com>
In-Reply-To: <CCEOJBBOBIEELIPNIKCNAECGFCAB.rcummi1123@rogers.com>


Hi Renée,

Here's how this thing goes:

Two brothers, Pierre ROY dit DESJARDINS (x Anne BOUCHARD) and
Jean-Baptiste ROY dit DESJARDINS (x Marie Madeleine MICHAUD), had
between themselves four sons whom they all named Jean-Baptiste. Two
Jean-Baptiste each.

Two of these boys, cousins to one another, were born within a year of
each other. First Jean-Baptiste ROY son of Jean-Baptiste ROY and Marie
Madeleine MICHAUD is believed to have been born between the 14th of
september 1725 and the 13th of September 1726, because he is stated as
having been 24 years of age when HE contracted to marry Marie Josèphe
PARADIS on September 13, 1750.

As you have been able to ascertain for yourself, the second one,
Jean-Baptiste ROY was born on the 24th of December 1727 was the son of
Pierre ROY and Anne BOUCHARD. He is therefore NOT the husband of Marie
Joseph PARADIS. In fact, he did not marry at all and most probably died
before reaching adulthood.

So any secondary source that shows Marie Josephe PARADIS's husband as
having been born on the 24th of December 1727 is erroneous.

Here's how this line cleans up:

1st generation:

Antoine ROY dit DESJARDINS
m. 11-09-1668, Quebec
Marie MAJOR

2nd generation:

Pierre ROY
m. 12-02-1691, Saint-Pierre, Ile d'Orleans
Marie-Anne MARTIN

3rd generation:

Pierre ROY
m. 07-06-1717, Rivière Ouelle
Anne BOUCHARD, alias DESERRE

and

Jean-Baptiste (senior) ROY
m. CM 05-09-1722 notary Lacetiere
Marie Madeleine MICHAUD

4th generation:

Sons of Pierre ROY and Anne BOUCHARD (alias DeSERRE):

1. Pierre ROY (alias Jean thanks to TANGUAY error) (born abt 1720-1721 -
died 3 sept 1753 at about 32 years of age)
m. 1748
Marguerite BOUCHER

2. Jean-Baptiste ROY, born in 1727 - fate unknown. He is often confused
with his namesake cousin.

3. Jean-Baptiste ROY, born 1735
m. 1761
Catherine CORDEAU


Sons of Jean-Baptiste (senior) and Marie Madeleine MICHAUD:

1. Jean-Baptiste ROY (b. ? - d. ?)
m. 1749
Marie Geneviève COTE

2. Jean-Baptiste ROY dit le cadet (meaning he was called "the younger"),
born about 1726
m. 1750
Marie Josephe PARADIS


Hope this clears up the confusion,

Mona


Renee Cummings wrote:
> I understand your conclusion Mona, but there's more than one error here.
> In the Dict.Genealogique et historique des Famille Paradis du Quebec par
> Normand Paradis page 95 it says
> That Jean-Baptiste Roy s/o J-B & Madeleine Michaud who married Josephe
> Paradis in 1750 was born
> Dec 27 1727 in Kamouraska
> I went to the LDS pilot site and found the baptism of J-B Roy-Desjardins Dec
> 24 1727 at Kamouraska s/o Pierre & Anne, his wife.
> Is it the same J-B, can't find a bapt for Dec 27 1727.
> here is the RAB certificate. I have the image of the record if anyone wants
> it.
> R.A.B.DU PRDH # 17605
> Kamouraska 1727-12-24
> Birth : 1727-12-24
> Rank Name Age MS Pr Gender
> 01 JEAN BAPTISTE ROY -- S P M
> 02 PIERRE ROY Father of 01 Spouse of 03 -- M P M
> 03 ANNE Mother of 01 Spouse of 02 -- M P F
> 04 JEAN BAPTISTE PARADIS -- -- P M
> 05 MARIE GENETS Spouse of 06 -- M P F
> 06 JEAN MARTIN Spouse of 05 -- M M
> 07 AUCLAIR Occupation : PRETRE, CURE -- S P M
> LE NOM DE FAMILLE DE LA MERE N'APPARAIT PAS DANS LE REGISTRE
> The family name of the mother doesn't appear in the register(Renee)
>
> Renee
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mona Andrée Rainville [mailto:]
> Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 5:52 PM
> To: Renee Cummings
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: [Q-R] Jean-Baptiste ROY x PARADIS was son of Jean-Baptiste ROY
> not Pierre ROY
>
>
> Hi Renée and all,
>
> Here's how we can safely say there were two Jean-Baptiste ROY sons of
> Jean-Baptiste ROY & Madeleine MICHAUD.
>
> We know, thanks to Denis Beauregard's article, that this couple had a son
> named Jean-Baptiste ROY who married Marie Geneviève COTE, died in 1756 and
> was buried in Kamouraska, as Jean-Baptiste DESJARDINS, on the 28th of
> February 1756. His widow remarried the next year with Philippe VOISIN.
>
> That makes one.
>
> We also know that Marie Joseph PARADIS was married to Jean-Baptiste ROY
> junior, son of Jean-Baptiste ROY senior, because the elder Jean-Baptiste is
> said to have been the grand-father of her children. This declaration was
> made in a court proceeding, in 1773, following the recent death of her
> husband. (see my previous message for the source.)
>
> That makes two.
>
> What seals it, is the presence in a document dated August 28, 1758,
> (therefore, after the death of the first son Jean-Baptiste), of the
> remaining two sons of the ROY-MICHAUD couple. One is Joseph - who was also
> present in the 1773 document. The second is "Baptiste".
>
> I can only agree with Denis's conclusion here. Jean-Baptiste ROY senior and
> Marie Madeleine MICHAUD were the parents of two sons named Jean-Baptiste
> ROY.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mona
>
>
>
>
>
> Renee Cummings wrote:
> Pierre Roy & Anne Serre did have two son Jean-Baptiste
> One born in 1727 the other on in 1735.
> But I can only find one born to Jean-Baptiste & Madeleine Michaud (can't
> find his birth, only his marriage)
> Union 1749-07-01 Trois-Pistoles ROY-DESJARDINS JEAN-BAPTISTE & COTE
> MARIE-GENEVIEVE PRDH
>
> That was Madeleine Michaud second marriage, her first to
> Union 1707-08-23 Rivière-Ouelle LEBEL NICOLAS & MICHAUD MARIE- MADELEINE
> PRDH
> and they did have a son Jean-Baptiste who married
> Union 1756-02-23 Kamouraska LEBEL JEAN-BAPTISTE & PARADIS GENEVIEVE PRDH
> d/o Union Before 1719-12-31 Lieu indéterminé (au Québec) PARADIS GABRIEL &
> COTE MARIE-ANNE PRDH
> Genevieve was the sister of Josephe who married J-B in 1750
> I found 5 children for Madeleine 1st marriage and 4 for her second.
> René
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> [mailto:]On Behalf Of Mona Andrée
> Rainville
> Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 3:24 PM
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: [Q-R] Jean-Baptiste ROY x PARADIS was son of Jean-Baptiste
> ROY not Pierre ROY
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> Yes, Pierre ROY and Marie Anne BOUCHARD / DeSERRE did have two sons
> named Jean-Baptiste.
>
> However, neither of them is the Jean-Baptiste ROY (junior) who married
> Marie Josephe PARADIS.
>
> Jean-Baptiste ROY (junior) was the son of Jean-Baptiste ROY (senior),
> and most probably Marie Madeleine MICHAUD.
>
> Jean-Baptiste (senior) appears on behalf of his grand-children in a
> document dated August 15, 1773 which you can all view on-line on the
> BAnQ website. Look for document CC301,S1,D4704
>
> Here is a loose translation of the relevant part the document:
>
> "...at the request of Marie Joseph(e) Paradis widow of the late Jean
> Baptiste Roy, in his lifetime a resident of Petit Kamouraska, in her own
> behalf and on the behalf of her minor children, of whom she is the
> tutrix, born of her marriage with the said deceased, and in the presence
> and with the consent of Joseph Roy their uncle and surrogate tutor, I,
> Joseph Dionne, notary...have called an assembly of seven men, all
> relatives of the children, to deliberate between themselves (...) being:
> Jean-Baptiste Roy, grand-father of the minor children; Antoine and Jean
> Roy, their cousins; Joseph Paradis, also their cousin; François and
> Alexandre Dionne, also their cousins; (...)"
>
> This pretty much pins down Jean-Baptiste ROY (junior)'s father, I'd say.
> It also mentions his brother Joseph ROY.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mona
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


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