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Archiver > SAXONY > 2003-05 > 1054416466


From: "Ralph Brien" <>
Subject: Re: [Saxony] FW: [SAXONY_ROOTS] Saxony: 9 lessons
Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 14:27:46 -0700
References: <JHEOLPDLPHLIPDFIFNNJEEKFDAAA.saxony@lakemartin.net>


Very interesting; thank you very much. My people were from Saxe-Coburg-Gotha
(Neukirchen and Berteroda). Where does that fit in?

Ralph Brien

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wolf Zscheile" <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 5:55 PM
Subject: [Saxony] FW: [SAXONY_ROOTS] Saxony: 9 lessons


> Here is a great history lesson...
>
> Wolf
>
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>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Thomas Rueffer [mailto:]
> > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 5:00 PM
> > To:
> > Subject: [SAXONY_ROOTS] Saxony: 9 lessons
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I admit it is a bit confusing with all the Saxons. I will try without
too
> > much history (Robert did that already in a perfect way). I just
> > want to give
> > an idea about the Saxons 1815-1918.
> >
> > 1st lesson
> > (1) Kingdom of Saxony, (2) Prussian Province of Saxony and (3)
> > Saxon Duchies
> > in Thuringia are three different territories (and not different
> > names of the
> > same area). It is not unique: compare Mexico and New Mexico, or Baja
> > California and California.
> >
> > 2nd lesson
> > Germany was unified as one state only in 1871. Before this time it was
an
> > assamblage of 26 states (1910), some of them were kingdoms,
> > others duchies,
> > others free cities and so on. After 1871 they lost most of the rights of
> > independent states but not their name, e.g. after 1871 the
> > Kingdom of Saxony
> > was part of the German Empire.
> >
> > 3nd lesson
> > The German states were of different size: not like California and Rhode
> > Island, more like US and Panama. The Kingdom of Prussia covered about
two
> > third of Germany and therefore it is more helpful to speak of the
Prussian
> > provinces than of Prussia. Prussian provinces were, e.g., called
> > Westphalia,
> > Saxony, East Prussia, Brandenburg.
> >
> > 4th lesson
> > Beside the dominating Kingdom of Prussia there were some large (for
German
> > relations) states: the kingdoms of Bavaria, Saxony and
> > Wuerttemberg, and the
> > grand duchies of Baden, Hesse and Mecklenburg-Schwerin. The three
kingdoms
> > had their own military even after the 1871 unification, so officially
also
> > the Bavarian army fought in WW I.
> >
> > 5th lesson
> > Almost 20 smaller states were distributed throughout Germany. The
smallest
> > was the Free Hanse City of Bremen with 256 sqare kilometres (the
smallest
> > real US state, Rhode Island, has 3,100 sqare kilometres, Prussia
350,000).
> > The fewest inhabitants lived in the Principality of Schaumburg (41,000
in
> > 1910 compared to over 40 million in Prussia). An assemblage of six small
> > states were in Thuringia, four of them were called the Saxon Duchies,
> > because they had "Saxony" and one or two cities in their name, e.g.
> > Saxony-Weimar (or Saxe-Weimar).
> >
> > 6th lesson
> > (1) Kingdom of Saxony, (2) Prussian Province of Saxony and (3)
> > Saxon Duchies
> > in Thuringia were neighbours (in central-east Germany) and that is not
by
> > accident. For the first "split" Robert comes: the 1485 division
> > of Saxony in
> > an Ernestine (western) and an Albertine (eastern) Saxony resulted
> > finally in
> > the Saxon Duchies of Thurigia and the Kingdom of Saxony.
> >
> > 7th lesson
> > So we got two Saxonies out of one. And the third? It was the result of
the
> > Kingdom of Saxony being mainly on the wrong side. E.g., the Kingdom of
> > Saxony collaborated with the Napoleonic oppressors. That was a bit
> > opportinistic because Napoleon ruled almost the whole of Europe,
> > but finally
> > Napoleon was beaten by the Russians and Prussia. As Germany after
> > both World
> > Wars, Saxony as a looser of the war had to pay with territory in the
> > Congress of Vienna 1815. As this happend more than one time between
Saxony
> > and Prussia, the winning Prussians collected during the 17th
> > until the 19th
> > century one part of Saxony after another. When it was enough to make a
> > province of its own they called the province Saxony.
> >
> > 8th lesson
> > As Robert started with the very early times: the Anglo-Saxons who
> > conquered
> > Britain between the 5th and the 9th century (and who are
> > responsible that we
> > Germans call UK and US Anglo-Saxony) had never seen any of the above
> > mentioned Saxonies (most of that area was Slavic during that time). They
> > came from northwest Germany, an area which was called Saxony up
> > until around
> > 1200 but lost the name afterwards because it was split in many small
areas
> > named after ruling families and cities. The term Saxony moved
> > eastward with
> > people who came from the "old" Saxony and conquered the former
> > Slavic "new"
> > Saxony.
> >
> > 9th lesson
> > Today, I am sorry, we do have again three Saxonies, but not the same as
in
> > the period 1815-1918. Three of the 16 German states have "Saxony" in
their
> > name. The Kingdom of Saxony is now Saxony, the Prussian province is now
> > Saxony-Anhalt (it was combined with the Duchy of Anhalt), and the Saxon
> > Duchies are (with other areas) Thuringia (yes: no Saxony). But we
> > have that
> > ancient Saxony from the Anglo-Saxons. The people in that area remembered
> > during the 19th century the old unifying term Saxony for their
> > territory. In
> > 1947 four northwest German states (Hanover, Brunswick, Oldenburg and
> > Schaumburg) were combined to the state of Lower Saxony.
> >
> > I hope it will help a bit, Thomas
> >
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