SCHLESWIG-HOLSTEIN-ROOTS-L Archives

From: "G. David Thayer" <>
Subject: Re: Hamburg & Schleswig-Holstein
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:01:26 -0800

At 08:50 1/11/99 +0100, Lars Jørgen Helbo wrote:
>
> At 11:40 10-01-99 -0800, G. David Thayer wrote:
>> My place of interest is Blankenese, which is presently in the Bundesland
>> of Hamburg.
>
> What matters is, if it is north or south of the river Elbe. Suburbs on
> the northern side of the river may have belonged to Holstein earlier.
>

Blankenese, of course, is on the north bank of the Elbe, between Nienstedten
and Rissen (all part of Hamburg now).

>
>> What is the correct way to write the birthplace of persons born in
>> Blankenese prior to 1866?
>

I should probably have written "prior to 1864" rather than 1866. The
latest birth date of persons in my family tree who were born in Blankenese
is 25 Mar 1862.

>
> In 1864 Preussen and Austria won the war against Denmark and took over
> Schleswig-Holstein (in a kind of partnership). But this partnership
> didn't last for long.
>
> In 1866 there was a war between Preussen and Austria. After this war,
> Preussen took over both Schleswig-Holstein and the kingdom of Hannover.
> Also in 1866 the north-German union was established between Preussen and
> among others Mechlenburg-Schwerin and Hamburg.
>
> I think (but I am not sure) that it was part of this agreement that
> Hamburg should (for joining this union) get parts of its suburbs in
> Holstein. Other parts have been transferred at later times--some in
> the 1930s and I think also around 1950.
>
> Therefore the answer may in the end depend of the time of year 1866 and
> it may also depend on which end of the street. ;-)
>

>From what you write above, I would say that most probably the correct
identification would be that, prior to 1864, Blankenese was part of
Holstein, and thus part of Schleswig-Holstein (the two duchies having been
declared as "indissolubly associated" in a charter of privileges granted
by Christian I of Denmark in 1460, in his capacity as duke of Schleswig and
count of Holstein; my encyclopedia says that Holstein was a fief of the
German Reich from 1227 until it became a duchy in 1474). I think I'll leave
my locations as they are: "Blankenese, Schleswig-Holstein" with no further
identification.

My one exception is a marriage which took place (I believe) in Blankenese
sometime between 1869 and 1872, for which I shall identify the location as
"Blankenese, (Hamburg?), Prussia." I think that's as close as we can get.
(The question mark meaning that we're not sure whether Blankenese was still
independent or was part of "Freie und Hansestadt Hamburg" at that time.)

As for Hamburg, I had always assumed that it was an independent city that
was nevertheless a part of the old duchy of Holstein. Did it belong to no
country? Was it a "law unto itself"? Or did it always belong to "Germany"
in some way?

If I had known what a can of worms this was going to be, I would have stayed
in bed all day! <LOL>

G. David Thayer
Salem, OR USA

This thread:

• Re: Hamburg & Schleswig-Holstein by "G. David Thayer" <>