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Archiver > SEITZ > 1999-03 > 0922837023
From: <>
Subject: Re: Johann Heinrich Seitz/Sides-Separating fact and fiction
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:37:03 EST
In a message dated 3/30/99 9:10:16 AM Central Standard Time,
writes:
<<At the risk of getting stoned here, my honest opinion is, that I doubt there
was enough information left behind for an accurate account of this families
ancestor's or decendant's.>>
We don't throw stones here, so not to worry. I agree with Dee, that perhaps
there may not be enough info left behind for many of these early Seitz
families.
Much has been written about Johann Heinrich Seitz, his supposed ancestry and
origins, but I have yet to see any sources for any of this info that dates
prior to Johann Heinrich Seitz's arrival on the Queen Elizabeth.
<<Johann Heinrich, Senior, Seitz Born 1680 Palentine Germany>>
I still haven't seen anything at all that would indicate that Johann Heinrich
Seitz's father was this "Johann Heinrich, Senior, Seitz Born 1680 Palentine
Germany".
<<Johann Heinrich, Junior, Seitz Born 1712 Palatine Germany Married 1732-
Holland. Died 1766 North Carolina Spouse: Dorothea Elizabeth Felsinger Born
1712 Holland Died aft. 1768 Mecklenburg Co., NC.>>
We know that Johann Heinrich Seitz was aboard the "Queen Elizabeth" with his
father-in-law Andreas Felsinger (Filtzinger), which sailed from Rotterdam.
Many ships headed for the new world sailed from Rotterdam, carrying passengers
from all of the German provinces to the colonies. The story goes that Johann
Heinrich Sr. the father of Henry Sides who married Dorothea, came to Holland
at a young age with his parents. I have seen this repeatedly, but no source is
given for this. Were Henry and Dorothea married in Holland? Who knows? No
evidence shows us this. It is just an assumption.
<<In the years 1747-1748 the Spanish warships raided the coastal areas of
North Carolina. This brought about the establishment of several companies of
militia.>>
There is a detailed account of this company in "Capt. Samuel Cobrin's Company
of Militia: The First Settlers of Lincoln and Gaston Counties" published by
Dr. Robert W. Ramsey Ph. D. The only Seitz\Sides mentioned on the list are
Henry and Adam Sides. There were several incidents of trouble with Spain,
spanning a number of years. As far as Cobron's militia, it appears now that
1753-5 is a more accurate date according to more recent research by scholars.
This would indicate the 1747-8 time frame is incorrect. The first land grants
in this area, were after 1750. We also know that Adam Seitz was in Oberacker
in Baden, in 1749-50, and was then found in Anson Co. land records abt 1755-7,
making his arrival sometime between 1750 and 1757. Given this, the militia
list must date from after 1750.
<<In one company we find Johann Hendrich Sides Jr. and his sons Johann
Hendrich Sides III, Peter and Jacob Sides.>>
I have seen the transcript of the list of men on the militia list, and the
only Seitz\Sides on the list were Henry and Adam Sides. Peter and Jacob are
not listed. This was erroneously added by another researcher who probably did
not see the militia list.
<<The Sides family tradition states that Henry Sides III served with
distinction in General George Washington's army during the American
Revolution.>>
I have seen this repeatedly. I haven't seen anything in the way of pension
records, military records etc that supports this.
<<Hendry Sides State of: Pa County of: Bedford Co Page 022
Age range in Household 01-00-04-00-00
............
Jacob Sides State of: Pa County of: Lancaster Co Bart Twp page 126
.............
John Sides State of: Pa County of: Lancaster Co Bart twp page 126
.........
Peter Sides, Sr. State of: Pa County of: Lancaster Co Bart twp Page 126
..........
Peter Sides, Jr. State of: Pa County of: Lancaster Co Bart twp page 126
...........
Who were these Sides', Hendry, Jacob, John, Peter Sides Sr and Peter Sides Jr;
living in Pennsylvania, in 1790?>>
These Seitz individuals appear to be Johann Peter Seitz, and his sons Peter
Jacob, John, and Henry, who were also residing in Bart Twp. in Lancaster Co.
PA.
1 Johann Peter Seitz d: Abt. 1763 in Lancaster Co. Pa
. +Anna Maria Wendsperger
. 2 Eva Elizabeth "Dorothy" Seitz b: 01 May, 1740 in Lancaster Co. PA d: Aft.
1765
.... +Henry Mathias
.... 3 Maria Mathias b: 28 April, 1762 in Lancaster Co. PA
. 2 Peter Seitz d: 1793 in Bart twp., Lancaster Co. PA
.... +Susannah
.... 3 Elizabeth Seitz b: 05 January, 1759
.... 3 Catherine Seitz b: 22 January, 1761 in Lancaster Co. PA
....... +Conrad Hoffman m: 22 April, 1783 in Lancaster Co. PA
. *2nd Wife of Peter Seitz:
.... +Anna "Neff" Nevin m: 13 February, 1742/43 in Lancaster Co. PA
.... 3 Johannes Seitz b: 01 June, 1744
. *3rd Wife of Peter Seitz:
.... +Barbara Gebel m: 29 November, 1785 in Bart twp, Lancaster Co. PA
.... 3 Jacob Seitz
.... 3 Eve Seitz
.... 3 Barbara Seitz
.... 3 Peter Seitz
.... 3 Cristine Seitz
....... +Henry "Sweesher" Schweitzer
.... 3 Henry Seitz
.... 3 Elizabeth Seitz
....... +Martin Eackman
. 2 Maria Barbara Seitz d: Bef. 1765
.... +Joh. George "Worffel" Wuerffel
.... 3 John Henry Wuerffel b: 10 June, 1740 in Lancaster Co. PA
.... 3 George Wuerffel b: 19 August, 1749 in Lancaster Co. Pa
. 2 Catharine Seitz d: Aft. 1765
.... +Adam Hock m: 18 November, 1755 in Lancaster Co. PA d: 1768 in Lancaster
Co. Pa
.... 3 Maria Catharine Hock b: 11 May, 1769 in Lancaster Co. PA
.... 3 John George Hock b: 29 July, 1765 in Lancaster Co. Pa
. 2 Wendle Seitz d: Aft. 1765
.... 3 Eva Barbara Seitz b: 1753 in Strasburg, Lancaster Co. PA
. 2 Casper Seitz d: Aft. 1765
.... +Agatha
.... 3 Jonas Seitz b: 18 December, 1759 in Lancaster Co. PA
.... 3 Christine Seitz b: 01 January, 1769 in Lancaster Co. PA
. 2 Benjamin "Benedict" Seitz d: Aft. 1765
.... +Catharine Schneider m: 12 October, 1756 in Lancaster Co. PA
. 2 Andrew Seitz d: Aft. 1765
. 2 Jacob Seitz d: Aft. 1765
.... +Barbara
.... 3 George Seitz b: 26 February, 1769 in Lancaster Co. PA
.... 3 Elizabeth Seitz b: 04 October, 1759 in Lancaster Co. PA
.... 3 Susanna Seitz b: 29 January, 1762 in Lancaster Co. PA
.... 3 John Henry Seitz b: 09 October, 1764 in Lancaster Co. PA
.... 3 Mary Magdalene Seitz b: 30 September, 1766 in Lancaster Co. PA
.... 3 Barbara Seitz b: 29 June, 1776
. 2 Elizabeth Seitz d: Bef. 1765
.... +Conrad "Handschuh" Henshing m: 27 January, 1761 in Lancaster Co. PA
.... 3 Anna Barbara Henshing b: 01 October, 1761 in Lancaster Co. PA
. 2 Anna Barbara Seitz b: 15 April, 1744 in Lancaster Co. Pa d: Bef. 1765
.... +Jacob "Heidelbach" Holdebaugh m: 04 April, 1761 in Lancaster Co. PA
.... 3 Anna Marie Holdebaugh b: 11 January, 1763 in Lancaster Co. PA
. 2 Anna Maria Seitz b: 25 April, 1746 in Lancaster Co. Pa d: Aft. 1765
.... +George Brua
Johann Peter's sons Wendle, Caspar, Andrew, Benjamin were living in VA in
1790.
<<Is there a possibility Hendry, Jacob, John, Peter Sr Sides, that were in Pa
in 1790, was in fact, (Johann Henrich Seitz, b 1712, and his sons), that he
(Hendry), Jacob, and Peter Sr actually came with Johann Heinrich (b.1734), to
NC, and later returned to Pa.>>
Records in PA show that the Henry, Jacob, John, Peter Sr. in PA are different
individuals than those of the same names in NC, all being contemporaries of
eachother.
<<Thus, making (Johann Heinrich 1712) Peter and Jacob Seitz, (Johann Heinrich
Sides, born 1734) father and brothers who participated in the militia, instead
of father and son's.
This would explain how they, (because of age) could have served in the
militia-- 1747-1748 era, but does not explain, if granted land, why they left
it and returned to Pennsylvania.>>
Again, Peter and Jacob were not members of Cobron's militia.
<<Henry Sides
State of: NC County of: Anson Co
page 036
Age range in Household 01-07-05-00-00
reading this
1 Free white male 16+ including head of household
7 Free white males under 16 years of age
5 Free white females including head of household
Henry Sides State NC
County Mecklenburg Co
Page 162
Age range in Household
01-01-01-00-00
reading this: 1 free white male 16+ including head of household
1 free white males under 16 years
1 free white female including head of household>>
and the following:
1. Henry Sides, son of Henry Sides, came to Philadelphia on the
ship, "Lydia", Dec 11 1739. His name is listed in the census of
1790. Henry was born 1774, and died in 1830. He married
Amelia___________.
His sons were: Henry Jr, Moses, Levi, Steven, William, Joseph,
Benjamin, Charlie and John.
All were baptised at the Dutch Buffalo Creek Church.
Taken from: Part I "Dutch Buffalo Creek Meeting House" 1745-1806
Frank K. Bostian; Bernard W. Cruse, LLB; page 32.>>
Evidence indicates that there were 2 different Henrys in NC who were about the
same age, one living in Anson Co., and another in Mecklenburg. They both
amazingly had children with virtually the same names. Records place these
families in two separate locations at the same time, proving they are
different individuals.
There is some confusion as to which one was the one that in fact went to
Walker Co. AL. One of them was the son of Henry and Dorothea, but which one?
<<Looking, again at the 1790 (NC) census, we have Henry, Andrew, Christian
and Michael listed. We can assume Henry was the father, Andrew was the son,
and Michael was Andrew's son. Christian was listed. Who is this Christian,
was he Andrews Christopher? I find Christopher listed many times in the Dutch
Buffalo Creek Church book, but not Christian--is he one and the same? >>
Possibly. Then names Christian and Christopher are often used interchangeably.
<<William B. Smith, born 1793 Kentucky, married Christina Sites, in Rockingham
County Va. Seven children, David R, Andrew Jackson, Josiah, John, Juliette
Ann, William, and Elizabeth. All were born in Rockingham County Va. Wm. B.
Smith died 1856 Berwick, Ill. Christina Sites, her father was Christian b.
1790 d 1828, his father Wendel (Vandel) b. c. 1720, d. 1786, his father was
Peter Seitz.
I find something wrong with the b. date of Christian here (1790) Wendel
(Valdel) would have had to been 70 years old at the time of Christian's
birth.-I believe there is a Christian, Sr and Christian, Jr. here, or perhaps
the year 1790 is a type-o.>>
There is already evidence that a Christian Seitz was living in VA early on. He
is shown to have been a militia Capt. in or around Lunenberg Co. VA. abt 1750.
Perhaps this Christian is the son of Wendle, father of a Christian Jr., who
was the father of Christina. Or a completely different Christian Seitz.
<<*Peter Seitz arrived in Maryland in 1661 pg 418., another *Peter Seitz, age
na, arrived in Virginia in 1671, page 92.>>
Wow, we can add another couple of Peters Seitzes to the pot...
<<Checking through this closely, one could consider the year 1671, and
remember the elder Johann Heinrich Seitz was born in 1680. Could it be that
Peter came to America first, then Johann Henrich the elder, along with, his
son and his family came in 1730's. Perhaps Peter Seitz was a brother of the
elder Johann Heinrich,1680 and Wendel (Vandel)b.1720, (Peter's son) traveled
with his family, including a son named Christian, to North Carolina the same
time as Johann Henrich's family did, perhaps later Christian returned to
Virginia. This may be why we cannot locate him again in NC.>>
There is no evidence to date that Johann Heinrich Seitz b. ca 1680 ever came
to the colonies. Is there a connection between the families of Johann Heinrich
Seitz b. abt 1680 and Johann Peter Seitz? Could be, but again, no evidence
would suggest this. I think the reason that Christian disappears from NC
records is because he died, rather than moving to VA or elsewhere.
One of the things that has plagued those of us researching in NC is that we
have spent much of our time trying to connect all of these Seitz\Sides,
together as one family. It is already apparent that there were at least 3
separate families in NC early on, that were seemingly unconnected.
It is no surprise at the difficulty that faces us in researching these
families. The fact that Seitz was a relatively common name, especially in the
southern regions of the German kingdoms, and the fact that the names John,
Henry, William, Leonard, Christian, Christopher, Peter, etc are common
christian names adds to the confusion.
What of the other Johann Heinrich Seitz that appears in Newberry, Orangeburgh
District of SC, and in Lancaster Co, SC records as an adult circa 1780? Other
names that appear are: Henry, George, Jacob, Leonard, and Christian? These
names are all too familiar to us, having seen them in PA, VA, NC also.
Dee is right, only if we all pool our information, insight and resources can
we even hope to unravel some of the mysteries.
Barney
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