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From: "Sephard Manager" <>
Subject: [SEPHARDIM] FW: Re: Jewish DNA among Southeastern Indians
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 01:36:18 +0000


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Subject: Re: Jewish DNA among Southeastern Indians
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 20:42:21 -0700

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Surnames: Sizemore
Classification: Query

Message Board URL:

http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/CtB.2ACIAE/136.4

Message Board Post:

Jewish DNA among Southeastern Indians
Author: Donald Panther-YatesDate: 4 Dec 2003 7:17 PM GMT
Surnames: Adair, Thomas, Bowles, Cooper, Sizemore, Wallen, Cone, Mordecai,
Collins, Grant, Waters, Powhatan, Cherokee, Choctaw, Blevins, Ward, Coody,
LeFlore, McAbee, Rogers, Glass, Black, Fox, Blackfox, Holland, Hyde,
Locklear

Reference: Donald Panther-Yates - DNA Testing of Southeastern American
Indian Families to Confirm Jewish Ethnicity Paper delivered at Society of
Crypto-Judaic Studies, San Antonio, August 8, 2003

The project called for volunteers to take either a female descent or male
descent genetic test if they could provide reasonable genealogical proof
that they were descended either from an early Indian trader or a Native
American woman who married or had children with one. The odds were all
against us. On the bright side, though, we did hit paydirt by locating
people with the right credentials and level of cooperation for a number of
important historical personages. These included:
a. Nancy Ward, the Beloved Woman of the Cherokee Nation.
b. Col. William Holland Thomas, the Welsh trader who founded the Eastern
Band of Cherokee Indians in North Carolina.
c. Chief John Bowles, the leader of the Texas Band of Cherokees.
d. Elizabeth Tassell, said to be the first Cherokee to marry a white man,
Ludovic Grant, a Scottish trader.
e. William Cooper, an explorer and trader, a scout for Daniel Boone.
First, the numbers. There were 9 persons, mostly females, who took the
Native Match test, and 12 persons, necessarily males, who took the
Y-chromosome test. Only one test result came back Unknown, but many of the
haplotypes were unique, meaning they matched no sample in either Bennetts
clientele at Family Tree DNA or the larger databases he cross-indexes to,
including Michael Hammers. This shouldnt surprise us because the DNA
testing of Native Americans has been very restricted, controversial, and
concentrated at any event on Navajos and other Western reservation tribes.
Of the five lineages the current state of scholarship admits as Native
American -- haplogroups A, B, C, D, and X -- our project found 2 Cs and one
B, no A, no D, but one X.
The majority of those hoping to authenticate their female Indian ancestry (5
out of 9) proved to be H, the most common European haplogroup. One was J,
the classic Jewish/Semitic haplogroup. As for the y-chromosomes, half (6 out
of 12) were R1b, sometimes called the Atlantic Modal Haplogroup, 2 (17%)
were E3b, one of the two well-studied Jewish haplogroups, and one was J2,
the other. There were also single entries in the categories of Viking
(Locklear, a Lumbee Indian name), Native American (Sizemore), and as I
mentioned, one sample that turned out to be a big unknown. (end of
quote).
**************************************************************
(Note: It is possible to have three Native American grand parents and still
not register positive on Native American DNA Testing, or vica versa. SB
See: http://www.genewatch.org/genewatch/articles/14-5nativeidentity.html ).
Contrary to what many think, propaganda is not lies, but the truth modified
to suit anothers purpose, ambition, etc. And to help cause the unknowing and
and unwary to agree with the one creating the propaganda. It is a very
effective tool for all philosophies, governments, politicians, lawers,
media, education and advertising types.
Here we see the propaganda creeping in where the statement "One was J, "the
classic "Jewish/Semitic" haplogroup," again in the statement "2 (17%) were
E3b, "one of the two well-studied "Jewish" haplogroups," and one was "J2 the
other," another states "this was but a small, purposive sample, it produced
the same proportion of what "we might call male Jewish DNA," roughly
20 percent, vis vis 80 percent male "non-Jewish" DNA," and another states
"Let us go now to the man who turned out to bear "Jewish male DNA," to
everyones surprise Bowles DNA came back J2, the haplogroup that contains
the Cohen modal lineage, his father was a Scots trader and his mother a
full-blood Cherokee woman, here was a "Jewish haplotype" that, historically
speaking, seems to have traveled out of Scandinavia and the Baltic region,
gone through Italy to Spain and Scotland and passed on to the Americas,
where it mingled with the Indians," or the statement "How about Wales!
as another unlikely place to find "Jews?" Our project also established
the "Jewish" roots of another family who intermarried with Cherokees, the
Blevins. Two of our test subjects were found to have "E3b" genes."
While these statements are not entirely incorrect, they are not entirely
correct either. It might appear that the author wishes the audience to think
"Jewish" and "well studied" when these haplogroups are mentioned! Neither of
the above haplogroups are identified as "Jewish." Haplogroup "J" is
identified as "Semitic or Mediterranean" and haplogroup "E3b" as "North
African Neolithic." Even the author acknowledges this to be so. "Bennett
has repeatedly assured both Beth and me that there is no such thing as
Jewish DNA. Strictly speaking, its true." And he states that even
some Arabs and Muslims test positive for the Cohen gene. For a frequency
chart by populations for various haplotypes see:
(http://website.lineone.net~usenet_evidence/gene_legacy/ )
The definition of Hg9 (Eu9) is NCGCATCGG+AG PG [The Y Chromosome Consortium
(YCC) renamed Hg9 as J (2002)].
In the Human Races Calculator the Hg9 (Eu9) in descending frequency order by
percentages follows:
Bedouin 66%, Palestinian Arabs 55%, Ashkenazi Jews 43%, Algerian 41%, Muslim
Kurds 40%, Pakistani Parsi 39%, Kurdish Jews 37%, Ossetian 34%, Cypriot 33%,
Turkish 33%, Armenian 29%, Greek 28%, Pakistani Brahui 28%, Sephardic Jews
28%, Indian Uttar Pradesh Brahmins 24%, Pakistani Makrani Baluch 24%,
Romanian 24%, Georgian 23%, Italian 20%, Pakistani Sindhi 20%, Pakistani
Makrani Negroid 18%, Indian Uttar Pradesh Rajputs 17%, Pakistani Kashmiri
17%, Pakistani Balti 15%, Bulgarian 12%, Northern African 12%, Pakistani
Baluch 12%, Czech 11%, Indian Uttar Pradesh 11%, Pakistani Kalash 10%,
Southern Portuguese 9%, Yugoslavian 8%, Danish 7%, Dutch 7%, Pakistani
Burusho 7%, Chuvash 6%, Mari 6%, Northern Portuguese 6%, Pakistani Pathan
6%, Slovenian 6%, Bavarian 5%, Belgian 5%, French 5%, Pakistani Hazara 4%,
Polish 4%, Russian 4%, German 3%, Hungarian 3%, Slovakian 3%, Spanish 3%,
Belorussian 2%, Northern Swedish 2%, Norwegian 2%, East Anglian 1%, Estonian
1%, Irish 1%. Hg9 is defined!
as "Semitic".
The definition of Hg21 is PCACATCGG+AG. [The Y Chromosome Consortium (YCC)
renamed Hg21 as E3b (2002)].
In the Human Races Calculator found the Hg21 in descending frequency order
by percentages follows: Northern African 77%, Algerian 52%, Greek 28%,
Cypriot 27%, Ashkenazi Jews 23%, Palestian Arabs 20%, Sardinian 20%, Bedouin
19%, Sephardic Jews 19%, Bulgarian 17%, Hungarian 17%, Southern Portuguese
17%, Italian 13%, Yugoslavian 13%, Kurdish Jews 12%, Northern Portuguese
11%, Belarussian 10%, Slovakian 10%, Spanish 10%, Turkish 10%, Bavarian 8%,
Czech 8%, Dutch 8%, French 8%, Pakistani Baluch 8%, Muslim Kurds 7%,
Romanian 7%, Russian 7%, Slovenian 7%, Chuvash 6%, Ossetian 6%, Pakistani
Parsi 6%, Pakistani Makrani Baluch 4%, Ukranian 4%, Armenian 3%, East
Anglian 3%, Estonian 3%, Pakistani Makrani Negroid 3%, Belgian 2%, Danish
2%, Finnish 2%, Georgian 2%, Irish 2%, Northern Swedish 2%, Norwegian 2%,
Pakistani Pathan 2%, Pakistani Sindhi 2%, Polish 2%, Western Scottish 2%.
Hg21 is a North African Neolithic lineage.
Either the author is not very knowledgeable of history, or he has chosen to
ignore any part that the Milesian invasion of Ireland @330 BC, or the effect
of the Roman Empire when it controlled west and south Europe, Britain, Asia
Minor, N. Africa, and the lands around the east end of the Mediterranean, or
the Ottoman Empire when it included much of south east Europe, south west
Asia, and north east Africa, and their occupying armies containing soldiers
from all the lands that they controlled may have played in the spread and
distribution of "Semitic" and "North African Neolithic" lineage.
The author appears to have a fixation about crypto "hidden" Jewish families,
and appears to have one hiding behind every hill, rock, stump, and clump of
bushes throughout Appalachia, and the southeastern US, as well as Ireland,
Wales, Scotland, France, Spain, Portugal, and elsewhere. And he appears to
be bent on also turning the Cherokee, Creek, Chickasaw, and Choctaw into
crypto-Jews. How long will it be before he starts on the Apache, and Navajo?
I am familiar with many of the surnames he has identified, and there may be
some of the Jewish faith in each of those families, but one of a faith does
not make all of that surname of the same faith. For the most part, if those
surnames are crypto-Jew, they have kept it so well hidden that their own
families (including mothers, fathers, wives, husbands, or children) know
nothing about it. And I find that hard to believe!
The author states that there are haplogroup determinations that contain the
DNA of people known to be Jewish today. But even some Arabs and Muslims test
positive for the Cohen gene. So how can we be so sure the y-chromosomal
haplotypes we are studying are Jewish? He further states, the answer lies
in;
a. the overwhelming preponderance of surnames with Hebrew and Sephardic
Jewish roots, (OK, I can buy that, but who makes this determination as to
surnames with Jewish roots, some self appointed expert, or Hebrew
University?)
b. combined with multigenerational cousin marriage and, (I can not see this
as an issue, it has been going on in every society since day one! Does that
make them all Jewish?)
c. other historical factors that must be properly interpreted. (I agree, how
about identifying those factors, and the "experts" required to properly
interpret them!)
The author also states, Genetics without a good genealogical chart is
useless, and even the charts are deceptive in the case of crypto-Jewish
families unless one has access to the death-bed confessions and whispered
family traditions. This is probably the most correct statement that I have
seen in this paper. All the testing, traditions, etc.are only opinions until
they can be linked to an individual some place in time utilizing sound,
proven genealogical principles. In my opinion, we do have a moral obligation
to uncover our families past, thereby remembering our ancestors, and it
should be done in a spiritual, moral way, or the ancestors may refuse to
recognize us.
After reviewing some of the papers the author has presented over the past
several months, I respectfully submit that the shock experienced by the
author while visiting his ancestors could have been caused by his ancestors
turning over in their resting places in order to present their backsides to
him.
Silas Begley

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