SOG-UK-L Archives

Archiver > SOG-UK > 2003-10 > 1065516895


From: "Hugh Watkins" <>
Subject: Re: [SoG] Marriage in the Army
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:54:55 +0000
References: <v03130302bba7daa51af0@[203.61.133.119]>
In-Reply-To: <v03130302bba7daa51af0@[203.61.133.119]>


Jill Forster wrote:

> >Penny Parker wrote:
> > > Could anyone help me with the following information please?
> > > In the 1830s if a soldier with the rank of private wished to marry
> were
> > > there any restrictions on him doing so?
> > > If he needed the commander's permission was this put in writing
> and if so
> > > are these documents still in existence?
> > > If he married would his rate of pay have changed in the quarterly
> muster
> > > book?
>
> >You have to ask permission to marry because the army accepts
> >responibility for housing you as a family and for your widow
> >Camp followers were not included
> >Hugh W
>
> I have the same problem Hugh. Do you know if the letters of request to
> marry have survived? Can't find anything on the PRO site and they are
> not in the Chaplain's records etc.


the British army *traditionally* assumes soldiers are illiterate

so orders are read out aloud including standing orders

permission is sought and given orally

SO when I wanted to get married in December 1959 I told the sergeant
clerk I would like to see my immediate commanding officer, the Director
of Music of the Royal Engineers Staff band, Aldershot, and I was shown
in and asked him.

I chose not to live in married quartes but found a 2 bedroom bungalow in
Mytchett, Farnborough Hants.. therefore I was paid a living out
allowance in lieue of my free accomodation in barracks and would have
been taken off the regimental Ration Strengh for breakfast and evening
meals.

If you are able to follow the money trial you will find in a 100 years
time when the records are released (in Denmark 75 years and 30 years for
Ministerial administration ) that the DoMs clerk has filled in a form
recording my change of status and submitted it.

The ripples from which will appear in accounts and muster rolls all the
way up to the War Office and the Budget most of which will of course
have disappeared by then.

If any such letter as that you write about, has ever existed (do you
have evidence that your ancestor could read and write ? ) it is unlikely
to survive except as an attachment to some financial record.

NOW I SPECULATE

The Chaplain would only record events like BMDs.

In the end any record would be a daughter of the WO and paymaster
generals accounts like the Chelsea Pensioners records which are records
of the use of public funds.

ANOTHER CASE

I was able to trace the military record of a Dane Jacob Andersen
born February 26, 1823 Ferring Sogn, Vandfuld H Ringkjøbing amt
apart form parish registers

he appears in 1824 with his date and place of birth and his father's
name (these were patronymic times) in the military roll as a potential
conscript.


In the Danish census of 1845


Samtlige personer i husstanden = All the people in the household

Randers, Støvring, Randers Købstad, Nyegade, , , 106 baghuset, FT--18451845
County, district , market town, street , , , 106 backhouse Census

Der vises flg. felter:
There are shown the following fields_Æ
Navn, Alder, Civilstand, Stilling i husstanden, Erhverv , Fødested
= Name. Age, Civilstatus (ugift = not married). position in household,
occupation, birthplace

Jens Poulsen, 24, Ugift, , 7 dragoner ved 5te dragon regiment, Nees
Ringkjøbing
Anders Nielsen, 22, Ugift, , 7 dragoner ved 5te dragon regiment, Tørring
Ringkjøbing
Jens Jensen, 22, Ugift, , 7 dragoner ved 5te dragon regiment, Raasted
Randers
Niels Christensen, 22, Ugift, , 7 dragoner ved 5te dragon regiment,
Bøvling Ringkjøbing
Jacob Andersen, 22, Ugift, , 7 dragoner ved 5te dragon regiment,
Fjerding Ringkjøbing (Fjerring)
Niels Hendriksen, 24, Ugift, , 7 dragoner ved 5te dragon regiment, Mou
Aalborg
Jens Christian, 24, Ugift, , 7 dragoner ved 5te dragon regiment,
??Skelle Hjørring

http://www.allposters.com/gallery.asp?aid=432999&item=273496
http://www.milhist.dk/uniforms/1848_2.htm
and today http://www.hok.dk/jdr/

One of seven Dragoons "living out" from the Fifth Dragoon Regiment in
Jutland
At the address you go through a gate way, or porte, to the back of the
yard to the "back house " which might also house a stable and or a workshop.


The records of the Danish War Office (defence ministry) are well
preserved including the muster rolls of the regimant form which I was
able to trace his military career over 20 year including the dates of
his promotion, his regimental number(s)(later records include criminal
record on the back of the page which were DECOROUSLY COVERED OVER WHEN
FIRST FILMED)

Thes records survive because they are a record of expenditure on wages
and of the establishment permitted and attained for each regiment . .
part of the money trial

They are very technical and the clerks used many abbreviations but the
Danish Conscript Rolls are an important source and are worthy of serious
study.

Jacob Andersen first turned up in Sct. Mortens Church, Randers parish
register November 1, 1850
as the father of the illigitimate child of a servant girl and is the
second great grandfather of my New York client.

She married well, one Jens Emilius Schjønning, a master saddlemaker from
Copenhagen which name of his step father is still used by my clients
cousins today none of whom have any blood or genes from the Schjønning
which is referred back to 16thc and north Germany.

BTW Emil is Emilius here in the latin form being a pointer to the
academic traditions of that family to this day. also spelled Schønning
and Schiønning or even Schiönning
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Schi%C3%B6nning

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=Schj%C3%B8nning&btnG=Google+Search

A published Norwegian pedigree goes back 360 years

The Danes had just defeated Prussia (Three Years’ War of 1848-1851) and
Jacob Andersen was promoted on the field of battle, more pay so
recorded, so then I suspect victory celebrations . . . . and 9
months later!
At the end of his military career Jacob Andersen possibly served as a
paid substitute for another conscript but my client did not wish to
spend any more money so that remains to be researched in detail.



Hugh W





This thread: