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From: "Tessa King" <>
Subject: Re: [ZA-EC] Lookup offer: Slave trading ancestors.
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:35:01 +0200
References: <BAY112-F12239627293617298D78D6F65A0@phx.gbl>


Hi John

Thank you for taking the time to check. I must say I think I am rather glad
and relieved to know that he wasn't involved in the slave trade (from
Liverpool anyway). My man I am sure was in the Royal Navy but records for
that time period are scant and so we haven't found anything significant yet.

Thanks again
Tessa

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hunt" <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 2:07 AM
Subject: Re: [ZA-EC] Lookup offer: Slave trading ancestors.


> Tessa,
> The answer is no. Unfortunately the database is not set up for
> genealogists--I cannot do a "global" search for Crozier. So I looked for
> him in 4 ways: As Captain 1, then Captain 2 and thereafter Owner A, then
> Owner B. It goes on up to 16 owners! But its fair to say your man was
> not involved in any major way.
> Regards,
> John.
>
>
>>From: "Tessa King" <>
>>Reply-To:
>>To:
>>Subject: Re: [ZA-EC] Lookup offer: Slave trading ancestors.
>>Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 09:30:19 +0200
>>
>>Hello John
>>
>>Thank you for your kind offer of a lookup. Please could you see whether
>>anyone name CROZIER was involved in the slave trade. Since William CROZIER
>>owned a ship and was a Master Mariner I wonder whether this was something
>>in which he was involved.
>>
>>Take care and thanks again
>>Tessa
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hunt" <>
>>To: <>
>>Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 11:33 PM
>>Subject: Re: [ZA-EC] Lookup offer: Slave trading ancestors.
>>
>>
>>>Pat, Deborah and Listers,
>>> My big database has slavers fom all over, including Bristol, which had
>>> about 2/3 the number compared to Liverpool. I have not looked, but I
>>> believe there is also data from Bristol, London, Holland and Spain. For
>>> a depressing and interesting webcrawl, just Google Liverpool+Slave
>>> Ships+Owners, or something like that. You will be amazed and horrified
>>> + educated.
>>> As just a sample of the summary data on one family group: In the
>>> period from 1744-1786, minus a few lost years, they took slaves from
>>> Biafra, Sierra Leone, Benin & the Windward coast. The numbers are
>>> specified. They took them to Jamaica, Dominica. St Kitts and
>>> "Unspecified" (16.5%). The "Slaves Embarked" totalled 3,398, compared to
>>> 2,770 slaves who were "Disembarked", an attrition rate of 18.5%. Since
>>> they couldn't escape, this was the death rate. It was mostly from
>>> diarrheal diseases, as in the Boer War Tommies and women and children in
>>> the Concentration camps. The figure is probably typical, since another
>>> group I studied had an 18.1% attrition rate.
>>> Small wonder the children of parents involved in this went into the
>>> law, the ministry and other professions--much like the children of the
>>> "Robber Barons" in America, who now dominate "Democrat" politics.
>>> I'll send any more tidbits anyone wants.
>>>John.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>From: patfryk <>
>>>>Reply-To:
>>>>To:
>>>>Subject: Re: [ZA-EC] Lookup offer: Slave trading ancestors.
>>>>Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 07:59:59 +1200
>>>>
>>>>Great John. I'll visit your site soon having also an interest in the
>>>>slave trade but from Bristol.
>>>>Pat
>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hunt" <>
>>>>To: <>
>>>>Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 5:47 AM
>>>>Subject: [ZA-EC] Lookup offer: Slave trading ancestors.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Hi Listers,
>>>>> My genealogical journey has fulfilled the warning given me when I
>>>>> started: "Don't shake the family tree too hard, you may not like what
>>>>> falls out." I have disproved descent from the Pirate Morgan (he had
>>>>> no children). I have found no link to Carnarvon Castle. "Lady" Anna
>>>>> Parsons was no lady. The descent my mother claimed from William of
>>>>> Orange was in fact from William Orange, who dabbled in the slave
>>>>> trade--not as hard as some other family members, however.
>>>>> For a little "white" South African boy, growing up in small town
>>>>> Vereeniging, some other connections have been equally disturbing.
>>>>> Mercifully I went to the "Liberal" Wits University and had my mind
>>>>> broadened by that and by overseas travel and life.
>>>>> My children can now claim to be real African-Americans, with descent
>>>>> from Eva, as well as one of the earliest white colonists, Jacob
>>>>> Cloete. There are also Huguenots and a "Halfslag" slave, acceoted by
>>>>> "White" Society. Certainly there were slave owners amongst their
>>>>> Eastern Cape progenitors, as well as descendants of slaves who
>>>>> themselves owned slaves. My "Lily White" 1820 Settler ancestors, of
>>>>> course, had to do their own lobour.
>>>>> In light of the above rant, I have found and placed in my computer,
>>>>> the latest and best database of Slave-trading ships and their trips
>>>>> from England to Africa and then across the "Middle Passage" to the
>>>>> Americas and Caribbean and then return to the UK. This is fully and
>>>>> easily searchable, and has provided me enormous amounts of rather
>>>>> distressing information.
>>>>> My family links there come from Liverpool, probably the biggest
>>>>> slaving centre in Britain. Slave-connected activities were largely
>>>>> responsible for the growth of Liverpool to be the second city of
>>>>> England and a leading port in the 19th Century. From 1790 to 1805,
>>>>> all the Lords Mayor of Liverpool, of which my GGG GrandFather was one,
>>>>> were involved in the Slave trade.
>>>>> I have also a database specific to Liverpool, which gave me proof of
>>>>> the involvement of William Orange in the trade--He is not in the main
>>>>> database above. Unfortunately this older database is machine
>>>>> readable, but must be searched by hand, with 50,000 entries! I'm not
>>>>> offering to do that again!
>>>>> However, I am offering lookups in the "Easy" database for anyone who
>>>>> thinks their family may have had slaving links. As I went through the
>>>>> Liverpool database, I saw many names familiar to those on our lists:
>>>>> Foxcroft, Hayhurst, Hutton, Hunt, Gardner and almost any other English
>>>>> name you can think of. Are they linked to us? Time and more work
>>>>> will tell.
>>>>>
>>>>>Regards to all,
>>>>>John Hunt.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>==== SOUTH-AFRICA-EASTERN-CAPE Mailing List ====
>>>>>Please trim unnecessary text from replies, leave enough to give
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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