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From: "Tombi Peck" <>
Subject: [ZA-EC] Fw: Descendants of Robert HART & Elizabeth DONALD (muchearlier ancestors than Robert HART and Hannah TAMPLIN)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 12:12:13 -0000


Hi everyone,
I received this snippet this morning which might be of use to some listers...
Donald Douglas Gordon HART b 9 July 1887 Butterworth, Transkei died 3 March 1951 at the Frontier Hospital, Queenstown was married to Winifride Mary BROMIDGE (no dates for her unfortunately)...I have some descendants noted but of course don't want to post the information as they are living....
Douglas was a 'gardener HART'....not a 'Glen Avon' HART. His parents were William Robert HART and Fanny Perkins MILES; Their parents (according to my file) were Joseph HART and Sarah WHITE and William Perkins MILES and Jane HOOPER. Joseph had two children from Sara...the second being another Joseph HART. Joseph Snr's parents were Thomas HART & Elizabeth Unknown.....I have a few more details if anyone would like them.
Their descendant and the 'Gardener' HART umfundi is Gary HART from Cape Town.
Best wishes,
Tombi Peck
----- Original Message -----
From: Gert Esterhuizen
To: Tombi Peck
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: Descendants of Robert HART & Elizabeth DONALD (much earlier ancestors than Robert HART and Hannah TAMPLIN)


Tombi,
It should read Donald Gordon Hart.
Tombstone:

Gert,
Daniel se graf is op my pa se plaas. Everton, Bongolo Basin, Queenstown Distrik.
Hier is die inskripsie:
Here rest
Donald Gordon Hart (o hel, ek sien dis Donald nie Daniel nie!)
who loved and laboured
for this land
09/07/1887 - 03/03/1951

Gert
----- Original Message -----
From: Tombi Peck
To: Gert Esterhuizen
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: Descendants of Robert HART & Elizabeth DONALD (much earlier ancestors than Robert HART and Hannah TAMPLIN)


Thanks for this Gert....
Language wise .....because I am working with so many lovely people I've devised ways to make it more comfortable for us all...
I apologise for any mistakes you may find.

As I said before do let me know if you would like any of the photographs...I will send you my favourite one of our South African 'Stamvader' Robert HART...
Ruth Levine provided the information about the earlier family members...she lives in Scotland so had the opportunity to do the research....

I am aware that Robert HART'S Death Notice does not give the same parental information we have....but as I've found in my own TAINTON family people left behind who complete the forms don't always have the correct information.

My ggg grandmother Ann TAINTON born BROOKS had her Death Notice completed by her eldest son Richard George TAINTON....If I hadn't known better I would have had the incorrect information.....

What Richard George had done was he had assumed that the two people she corresponded most frequently with were her parents...they were actually her half brother and sister who stayed living in the U.K. We have absolute proof of who her parents were as we have copies of the marriage document of her parents and we have a photograph of the headstone of her father's grave (his second wife is buried with him) as is his son, the half-brother is also buried in the same gave together with his wife!!
I have a photograph of the only record of a birth of a Robert Hart in Scotland in 1777, once again from Ruth Levine.

I've had other instances (once again in my TAINTON family) where a name is corrupted over the years...such as the incidence you have here where TEMPLIN should actually be TAMPLIN which was Hannah's surname. I've been in touch with the TAMPLIN one name society who provided the information on Hannah TAMPLIN'S parents and brother....

We are still trying to obtain the marriage registration for Robert HART and Hannah TAMPLIN. We aren't sure why they married in St. Peter Port, Guernsey.....there was the opportunity for under-age people to marry there without parental permission.....Hannah was 25 when they married and Robert was 26....At that time by the time a woman was 25 she was really considered to be 'over the hill'!

I forgot to add that Alan Marillier and Michael Perks also helped with constructing the HART information....Michael Perks has now left South Africa and is living in Australia...Alan Marillier lives in the USA.....

Anton HART lives on the Cape Peninsula and Grizel HART and her husband live somewhere near Port Elizabeth....Garry HOWARD-BROWNE also lives somewhere near Cape Town....

One of these days I will be scanning in quite a number of pages to do with James HART'S murder trial .....at the moment I have the main documents, the list of jury members and the sentence already scanned into my computer....James HART was later charged for what in my mind is an even nastier offence than the murder!! Unfortunately with family history/genealogy one has to take the rough with the smooth and one can't change the past!!

You haven't said how you are tied into the family....

My line of descent is as follows:

Robert HART & Hannah TAMPLIN
James HART & Maria Susanna Wilhelmina VAN AARDT (we suspect she died in childbirth)
Maria Susanna Wilhelmina HART & Herbert Howard BROWNE 1
Herbert Howard BROWNE ii & Jessie Anne KIDWELL
Robert Hart BROWNE & Chloris Ilva Hope Lockington TAINTON
Chloris Barbara Tainton BROWNE & Ralph (pronounced Rafe) Andrew Irwin DEES
to me, Chloris Mary Irwin PECK born Dees.
Best wishes,
Tombi Peck

----- Original Message -----
From: Gert Esterhuizen
To: Tombi Peck
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 8:03 PM
Subject: Re: Descendants of Robert HART & Elizabeth DONALD (much earlier ancestors than Robert HART and Hannah TAMPLIN)


Tombi,
I have no words!!!I am sure you are right
DEPOT TAB
SOURCE MHG
TYPE LEER
VOLUME_NO 0
SYSTEM 01
REFERENCE 82410
PART 1
DESCRIPTION WOODS, JOHANNA TEMPLIN. BORN HART.
STARTING 19330000
ENDING 19330000
REMARKS SURVIVING SPOUSE REUBEN ROBERT WOODS.

I will look into the file. The birth day and month is the same and it appears as if there was a bit of confusion with all the dates or rather the years of birth. I know that Oupa Woods was well into his 90s when he died in 1971. His daughter, MJR was 72 at the time. It looks as if RR Woods and Hannah then gave the first child a combination of Hannah/s father and mother (hence Mary James Richard!)
I am extremely grateful for all the info and will take a few days to just try and go through it all!!

Btw, my home language is English.

Thanks again!!

Gert
----- Original Message -----
From: Tombi Peck
To: Gert Esterhuizen
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 4:58 PM
Subject: Descendants of Robert HART & Elizabeth DONALD (much earlier ancestors than Robert HART and Hannah TAMPLIN)


Hi Gert,
Thank you for the information on a branch of the HART family I was unaware of!
I've produced an Acrobat file of the infomation I have on the Hart Family....
I hasten to add that there are mistakes...a couple of slips of the finger when tired caused problems...sometimes when it should read born in Cradock it may say born in St. Peter's Church, Cradock which is of course incorrect.....It's a 'work in progres' as the saying goes.

I have not privatised the file because I find it so irritating not to have the information but I must ask you and anyone you may share this with to respect (in particular) the information on living people which could of course could lead to the information being used for Identity theft.

There is also the factor of copyright.....I've taken a lot of notes from books and other printed material....it may not be reproduced onto a website or be published in any way as I haven't obtained permission to use the material other than for my own personal use.

There are several descendants of Robert HART and Hannah TAMPLIN of Glen Avon who are called Hannah Tamplin HART. Comparing the name and the dates it is vey likely that the Hannah Tamplin HART you are interested in is the daughter James 'Richard' Klopper (Dickie) HART and Maria Isabella VAN DEN HEEVER. In turn James was the son of Andrew HART and Jemima Elizabeth WEBB; Andrew HART was the son of my ggg grandfather James HART and his second wife Martha Louisa KLOPPER. I'm descended from his first wife Maria Susanna Wilhelmina VAN AARDT.

I'm forwarding the information you have sent me to the other descendants who are working on the tree....they are Grizel HART who is the wife of Hugh Meintjies HART, Ruth LEVINE (who lives in Scotland) she's also descended from Martha Louisa KLOPPER; Anton HART, and Garry HOWARD-BROWNE......

Ek was in die Vrystaat grootgemaak maar my Afrikaans is nie mee vlot nie! Ek kan Afrikaans lees en verstaan. Unfortunately my written Afrikaans is not very good!! I have a number of Afrikaans speaking friends and relations who find writing in English very tricky...we've come to the agreement that they write in Afrikaans and I write in English....if I get stuck on a word I have a chap called Francois Greef (who lives here in England) whom I can speak with on SKYPE...he's very helpful and will translate the odd sentence for me.

In case you have SKYPE my address is chloris31.

If you try to find me in the file you will find me as Chloris Mary Irwin PECK born DEES aka Tombi Peck......

I have quite a number of photographs of some of he HART family, the farm, Strathaven (in Scotland where Robert HART was born) and some of the HART Collection which is held at the Albany Museum.

Best wishes,
Tombi Peck


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