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From: "Tombi Peck" <>
Subject: Re: [ZA-EC] VARIOUS HART FAMILIES.
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 10:39:24 -0000
References: <3B1EC8961C1244B28A399515C52207E0@TombiPeckPC><55028f590912020154r5b6b6563t5db4186374784d2c@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <55028f590912020154r5b6b6563t5db4186374784d2c@mail.gmail.com>


Hi Carol,
I do have Marion HART and he husband Joseph Walker in my file. She is not
part of the family of Robert HART and Hannah TAMPLIN as far as I am aware.
Roert HART of Glen Avon according to one source had a brother, Andew HART
who remained in Scotland. He married Isobele Steele and had a daughter
Marion HART who as far as I know remained living in Scotland too.
The same source also has a sister Griel HART for our Robert HART; she too
is thought to have remained in Scotland and married a David CAMPBELL.
Unfortunately, according to someone I spoke with recently HART is a very
common name in the British Isles although not quite as prolific as SMITH,
BROWN and BROWNE.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Forsberg" <>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [ZA-EC] Fw: Descendants of Robert HART & Elizabeth DONALD
(muchearlier ancestors than Robert HART and Hannah TAMPLIN)


> Hi all,
>
> I have
>
> 1. Raymond Hart X Dorothy Wild, daughter of Frederick William Wild and
> Minnie Batchelor.
>
> 2. Marion Hart X Joseph Walker.
>
> Are these yours?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carol
>
> 2009/12/1 Tombi Peck <>
>
>> Hi everyone,
>> I received this snippet this morning which might be of use to some
>> listers...
>> Donald Douglas Gordon HART b 9 July 1887 Butterworth, Transkei died 3
>> March
>> 1951 at the Frontier Hospital, Queenstown was married to Winifride Mary
>> BROMIDGE (no dates for her unfortunately)...I have some descendants noted
>> but of course don't want to post the information as they are living....
>> Douglas was a 'gardener HART'....not a 'Glen Avon' HART. His parents were
>> William Robert HART and Fanny Perkins MILES; Their parents (according to
>> my
>> file) were Joseph HART and Sarah WHITE and William Perkins MILES and Jane
>> HOOPER. Joseph had two children from Sara...the second being another
>> Joseph
>> HART. Joseph Snr's parents were Thomas HART & Elizabeth Unknown.....I
>> have a
>> few more details if anyone would like them.
>> Their descendant and the 'Gardener' HART umfundi is Gary HART from Cape
>> Town.
>> Best wishes,
>> Tombi Peck
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Gert Esterhuizen
>> To: Tombi Peck
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 9:34 AM
>> Subject: Re: Descendants of Robert HART & Elizabeth DONALD (much earlier
>> ancestors than Robert HART and Hannah TAMPLIN)
>>
>>
>> Tombi,
>> It should read Donald Gordon Hart.
>> Tombstone:
>>
>> Gert,
>> Daniel se graf is op my pa se plaas. Everton, Bongolo Basin, Queenstown
>> Distrik.
>> Hier is die inskripsie:
>> Here rest
>> Donald Gordon Hart (o hel, ek sien dis Donald nie Daniel nie!)
>> who loved and laboured
>> for this land
>> 09/07/1887 - 03/03/1951
>>
>> Gert
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Tombi Peck
>> To: Gert Esterhuizen
>> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 11:01 PM
>> Subject: Re: Descendants of Robert HART & Elizabeth DONALD (much earlier
>> ancestors than Robert HART and Hannah TAMPLIN)
>>
>>
>> Thanks for this Gert....
>> Language wise .....because I am working with so many lovely people I've
>> devised ways to make it more comfortable for us all...
>> I apologise for any mistakes you may find.
>>
>> As I said before do let me know if you would like any of the
>> photographs...I will send you my favourite one of our South African
>> 'Stamvader' Robert HART...
>> Ruth Levine provided the information about the earlier family
>> members...she lives in Scotland so had the opportunity to do the
>> research....
>>
>> I am aware that Robert HART'S Death Notice does not give the same
>> parental
>> information we have....but as I've found in my own TAINTON family people
>> left behind who complete the forms don't always have the correct
>> information.
>>
>> My ggg grandmother Ann TAINTON born BROOKS had her Death Notice
>> completed
>> by her eldest son Richard George TAINTON....If I hadn't known better I
>> would
>> have had the incorrect information.....
>>
>> What Richard George had done was he had assumed that the two people she
>> corresponded most frequently with were her parents...they were actually
>> her
>> half brother and sister who stayed living in the U.K. We have absolute
>> proof of who her parents were as we have copies of the marriage document
>> of
>> her parents and we have a photograph of the headstone of her father's
>> grave
>> (his second wife is buried with him) as is his son, the half-brother is
>> also
>> buried in the same gave together with his wife!!
>> I have a photograph of the only record of a birth of a Robert Hart in
>> Scotland in 1777, once again from Ruth Levine.
>>
>> I've had other instances (once again in my TAINTON family) where a name
>> is
>> corrupted over the years...such as the incidence you have here where
>> TEMPLIN
>> should actually be TAMPLIN which was Hannah's surname. I've been in
>> touch
>> with the TAMPLIN one name society who provided the information on Hannah
>> TAMPLIN'S parents and brother....
>>
>> We are still trying to obtain the marriage registration for Robert HART
>> and Hannah TAMPLIN. We aren't sure why they married in St. Peter Port,
>> Guernsey.....there was the opportunity for under-age people to marry
>> there
>> without parental permission.....Hannah was 25 when they married and
>> Robert
>> was 26....At that time by the time a woman was 25 she was really
>> considered
>> to be 'over the hill'!
>>
>> I forgot to add that Alan Marillier and Michael Perks also helped with
>> constructing the HART information....Michael Perks has now left South
>> Africa
>> and is living in Australia...Alan Marillier lives in the USA.....
>>
>> Anton HART lives on the Cape Peninsula and Grizel HART and her husband
>> live somewhere near Port Elizabeth....Garry HOWARD-BROWNE also lives
>> somewhere near Cape Town....
>>
>> One of these days I will be scanning in quite a number of pages to do
>> with
>> James HART'S murder trial .....at the moment I have the main documents,
>> the
>> list of jury members and the sentence already scanned into my
>> computer....James HART was later charged for what in my mind is an even
>> nastier offence than the murder!! Unfortunately with family
>> history/genealogy one has to take the rough with the smooth and one can't
>> change the past!!
>>
>> You haven't said how you are tied into the family....
>>
>> My line of descent is as follows:
>>
>> Robert HART & Hannah TAMPLIN
>> James HART & Maria Susanna Wilhelmina VAN AARDT (we suspect she died in
>> childbirth)
>> Maria Susanna Wilhelmina HART & Herbert Howard BROWNE 1
>> Herbert Howard BROWNE ii & Jessie Anne KIDWELL
>> Robert Hart BROWNE & Chloris Ilva Hope Lockington TAINTON
>> Chloris Barbara Tainton BROWNE & Ralph (pronounced Rafe) Andrew Irwin
>> DEES
>> to me, Chloris Mary Irwin PECK born Dees.
>> Best wishes,
>> Tombi Peck
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Gert Esterhuizen
>> To: Tombi Peck
>> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 8:03 PM
>> Subject: Re: Descendants of Robert HART & Elizabeth DONALD (much
>> earlier
>> ancestors than Robert HART and Hannah TAMPLIN)
>>
>>
>> Tombi,
>> I have no words!!!I am sure you are right
>> DEPOT TAB
>> SOURCE MHG
>> TYPE LEER
>> VOLUME_NO 0
>> SYSTEM 01
>> REFERENCE 82410
>> PART 1
>> DESCRIPTION WOODS, JOHANNA TEMPLIN. BORN HART.
>> STARTING 19330000
>> ENDING 19330000
>> REMARKS SURVIVING SPOUSE REUBEN ROBERT WOODS.
>>
>> I will look into the file. The birth day and month is the same and it
>> appears as if there was a bit of confusion with all the dates or rather
>> the
>> years of birth. I know that Oupa Woods was well into his 90s when he died
>> in
>> 1971. His daughter, MJR was 72 at the time. It looks as if RR Woods and
>> Hannah then gave the first child a combination of Hannah/s father and
>> mother
>> (hence Mary James Richard!)
>> I am extremely grateful for all the info and will take a few days to
>> just try and go through it all!!
>>
>> Btw, my home language is English.
>>
>> Thanks again!!
>>
>> Gert
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Tombi Peck
>> To: Gert Esterhuizen
>> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 4:58 PM
>> Subject: Descendants of Robert HART & Elizabeth DONALD (much earlier
>> ancestors than Robert HART and Hannah TAMPLIN)
>>
>>
>> Hi Gert,
>> Thank you for the information on a branch of the HART family I was
>> unaware of!
>> I've produced an Acrobat file of the infomation I have on the Hart
>> Family....
>> I hasten to add that there are mistakes...a couple of slips of the
>> finger when tired caused problems...sometimes when it should read born in
>> Cradock it may say born in St. Peter's Church, Cradock which is of course
>> incorrect.....It's a 'work in progres' as the saying goes.
>>
>> I have not privatised the file because I find it so irritating not
>> to
>> have the information but I must ask you and anyone you may share this
>> with
>> to respect (in particular) the information on living people which could
>> of
>> course could lead to the information being used for Identity theft.
>>
>> There is also the factor of copyright.....I've taken a lot of notes
>> from books and other printed material....it may not be reproduced onto a
>> website or be published in any way as I haven't obtained permission to
>> use
>> the material other than for my own personal use.
>>
>> There are several descendants of Robert HART and Hannah TAMPLIN of
>> Glen Avon who are called Hannah Tamplin HART. Comparing the name and the
>> dates it is vey likely that the Hannah Tamplin HART you are interested in
>> is
>> the daughter James 'Richard' Klopper (Dickie) HART and Maria Isabella VAN
>> DEN HEEVER. In turn James was the son of Andrew HART and Jemima Elizabeth
>> WEBB; Andrew HART was the son of my ggg grandfather James HART and his
>> second wife Martha Louisa KLOPPER. I'm descended from his first wife
>> Maria
>> Susanna Wilhelmina VAN AARDT.
>>
>> I'm forwarding the information you have sent me to the other
>> descendants who are working on the tree....they are Grizel HART who is
>> the
>> wife of Hugh Meintjies HART, Ruth LEVINE (who lives in Scotland) she's
>> also
>> descended from Martha Louisa KLOPPER; Anton HART, and Garry
>> HOWARD-BROWNE......
>>
>> Ek was in die Vrystaat grootgemaak maar my Afrikaans is nie mee vlot
>> nie! Ek kan Afrikaans lees en verstaan. Unfortunately my written
>> Afrikaans
>> is not very good!! I have a number of Afrikaans speaking friends and
>> relations who find writing in English very tricky...we've come to the
>> agreement that they write in Afrikaans and I write in English....if I get
>> stuck on a word I have a chap called Francois Greef (who lives here in
>> England) whom I can speak with on SKYPE...he's very helpful and will
>> translate the odd sentence for me.
>>
>> In case you have SKYPE my address is chloris31.
>>
>> If you try to find me in the file you will find me as Chloris Mary
>> Irwin PECK born DEES aka Tombi Peck......
>>
>> I have quite a number of photographs of some of he HART family, the
>> farm, Strathaven (in Scotland where Robert HART was born) and some of the
>> HART Collection which is held at the Albany Museum.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Tombi Peck
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.424 / Virus Database: 270.14.51/2482 - Release Date:
>> 11/05/09 07:37:00
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.88/2537 - Release Date:
>> 11/30/09
>> 21:05:00
>>
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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07:33:00

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