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From: "Rod Gebhardt" <>
Subject: Re: [ZA-EC] VARIOUS HART FAMILIES.
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 09:57:24 +0200
References: <3B1EC8961C1244B28A399515C52207E0@TombiPeckPC><55028f590912020154r5b6b6563t5db4186374784d2c@mail.gmail.com><9AE96DE83B774708A3668ABFAA9FE931@TombiPeckPC>


Hi Tombi,
Just checking the few HARTS I have on file and I think I may have a
duplication. I have A robert HART married to Hariett Elizabeth Marillier,
with a daughter Sarah Jane HART. Then I have another Robert HART married to
Hannah TAMPLIN with a daughter Eleanor Evelyn HART. Are these two Roberts
one and the same or two diffirent families?

Regards,

Rod
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tombi Peck" <>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: [ZA-EC] VARIOUS HART FAMILIES.


> Hi Carol,
> I do have Marion HART and he husband Joseph Walker in my file. She is not
> part of the family of Robert HART and Hannah TAMPLIN as far as I am aware.
> Roert HART of Glen Avon according to one source had a brother, Andew HART
> who remained in Scotland. He married Isobele Steele and had a daughter
> Marion HART who as far as I know remained living in Scotland too.
> The same source also has a sister Griel HART for our Robert HART; she too
> is thought to have remained in Scotland and married a David CAMPBELL.
> Unfortunately, according to someone I spoke with recently HART is a very
> common name in the British Isles although not quite as prolific as SMITH,
> BROWN and BROWNE.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ray Forsberg" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [ZA-EC] Fw: Descendants of Robert HART & Elizabeth DONALD
> (muchearlier ancestors than Robert HART and Hannah TAMPLIN)
>
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I have
>>
>> 1. Raymond Hart X Dorothy Wild, daughter of Frederick William Wild and
>> Minnie Batchelor.
>>
>> 2. Marion Hart X Joseph Walker.
>>
>> Are these yours?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Carol
>>
>> 2009/12/1 Tombi Peck <>
>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>> I received this snippet this morning which might be of use to some
>>> listers...
>>> Donald Douglas Gordon HART b 9 July 1887 Butterworth, Transkei died 3
>>> March
>>> 1951 at the Frontier Hospital, Queenstown was married to Winifride Mary
>>> BROMIDGE (no dates for her unfortunately)...I have some descendants
>>> noted
>>> but of course don't want to post the information as they are living....
>>> Douglas was a 'gardener HART'....not a 'Glen Avon' HART. His parents
>>> were
>>> William Robert HART and Fanny Perkins MILES; Their parents (according to
>>> my
>>> file) were Joseph HART and Sarah WHITE and William Perkins MILES and
>>> Jane
>>> HOOPER. Joseph had two children from Sara...the second being another
>>> Joseph
>>> HART. Joseph Snr's parents were Thomas HART & Elizabeth Unknown.....I
>>> have a
>>> few more details if anyone would like them.
>>> Their descendant and the 'Gardener' HART umfundi is Gary HART from Cape
>>> Town.
>>> Best wishes,
>>> Tombi Peck
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Gert Esterhuizen
>>> To: Tombi Peck
>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 9:34 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Descendants of Robert HART & Elizabeth DONALD (much earlier
>>> ancestors than Robert HART and Hannah TAMPLIN)
>>>
>>>
>>> Tombi,
>>> It should read Donald Gordon Hart.
>>> Tombstone:
>>>
>>> Gert,
>>> Daniel se graf is op my pa se plaas. Everton, Bongolo Basin, Queenstown
>>> Distrik.
>>> Hier is die inskripsie:
>>> Here rest
>>> Donald Gordon Hart (o hel, ek sien dis Donald nie Daniel nie!)
>>> who loved and laboured
>>> for this land
>>> 09/07/1887 - 03/03/1951
>>>
>>> Gert
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Tombi Peck
>>> To: Gert Esterhuizen
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 11:01 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Descendants of Robert HART & Elizabeth DONALD (much
>>> earlier
>>> ancestors than Robert HART and Hannah TAMPLIN)
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for this Gert....
>>> Language wise .....because I am working with so many lovely people I've
>>> devised ways to make it more comfortable for us all...
>>> I apologise for any mistakes you may find.
>>>
>>> As I said before do let me know if you would like any of the
>>> photographs...I will send you my favourite one of our South African
>>> 'Stamvader' Robert HART...
>>> Ruth Levine provided the information about the earlier family
>>> members...she lives in Scotland so had the opportunity to do the
>>> research....
>>>
>>> I am aware that Robert HART'S Death Notice does not give the same
>>> parental
>>> information we have....but as I've found in my own TAINTON family people
>>> left behind who complete the forms don't always have the correct
>>> information.
>>>
>>> My ggg grandmother Ann TAINTON born BROOKS had her Death Notice
>>> completed
>>> by her eldest son Richard George TAINTON....If I hadn't known better I
>>> would
>>> have had the incorrect information.....
>>>
>>> What Richard George had done was he had assumed that the two people she
>>> corresponded most frequently with were her parents...they were actually
>>> her
>>> half brother and sister who stayed living in the U.K. We have
>>> absolute
>>> proof of who her parents were as we have copies of the marriage document
>>> of
>>> her parents and we have a photograph of the headstone of her father's
>>> grave
>>> (his second wife is buried with him) as is his son, the half-brother is
>>> also
>>> buried in the same gave together with his wife!!
>>> I have a photograph of the only record of a birth of a Robert Hart in
>>> Scotland in 1777, once again from Ruth Levine.
>>>
>>> I've had other instances (once again in my TAINTON family) where a name
>>> is
>>> corrupted over the years...such as the incidence you have here where
>>> TEMPLIN
>>> should actually be TAMPLIN which was Hannah's surname. I've been in
>>> touch
>>> with the TAMPLIN one name society who provided the information on Hannah
>>> TAMPLIN'S parents and brother....
>>>
>>> We are still trying to obtain the marriage registration for Robert HART
>>> and Hannah TAMPLIN. We aren't sure why they married in St. Peter Port,
>>> Guernsey.....there was the opportunity for under-age people to marry
>>> there
>>> without parental permission.....Hannah was 25 when they married and
>>> Robert
>>> was 26....At that time by the time a woman was 25 she was really
>>> considered
>>> to be 'over the hill'!
>>>
>>> I forgot to add that Alan Marillier and Michael Perks also helped with
>>> constructing the HART information....Michael Perks has now left South
>>> Africa
>>> and is living in Australia...Alan Marillier lives in the USA.....
>>>
>>> Anton HART lives on the Cape Peninsula and Grizel HART and her husband
>>> live somewhere near Port Elizabeth....Garry HOWARD-BROWNE also lives
>>> somewhere near Cape Town....
>>>
>>> One of these days I will be scanning in quite a number of pages to do
>>> with
>>> James HART'S murder trial .....at the moment I have the main documents,
>>> the
>>> list of jury members and the sentence already scanned into my
>>> computer....James HART was later charged for what in my mind is an even
>>> nastier offence than the murder!! Unfortunately with family
>>> history/genealogy one has to take the rough with the smooth and one
>>> can't
>>> change the past!!
>>>
>>> You haven't said how you are tied into the family....
>>>
>>> My line of descent is as follows:
>>>
>>> Robert HART & Hannah TAMPLIN
>>> James HART & Maria Susanna Wilhelmina VAN AARDT (we suspect she died in
>>> childbirth)
>>> Maria Susanna Wilhelmina HART & Herbert Howard BROWNE 1
>>> Herbert Howard BROWNE ii & Jessie Anne KIDWELL
>>> Robert Hart BROWNE & Chloris Ilva Hope Lockington TAINTON
>>> Chloris Barbara Tainton BROWNE & Ralph (pronounced Rafe) Andrew Irwin
>>> DEES
>>> to me, Chloris Mary Irwin PECK born Dees.
>>> Best wishes,
>>> Tombi Peck
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Gert Esterhuizen
>>> To: Tombi Peck
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 8:03 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Descendants of Robert HART & Elizabeth DONALD (much
>>> earlier
>>> ancestors than Robert HART and Hannah TAMPLIN)
>>>
>>>
>>> Tombi,
>>> I have no words!!!I am sure you are right
>>> DEPOT TAB
>>> SOURCE MHG
>>> TYPE LEER
>>> VOLUME_NO 0
>>> SYSTEM 01
>>> REFERENCE 82410
>>> PART 1
>>> DESCRIPTION WOODS, JOHANNA TEMPLIN. BORN HART.
>>> STARTING 19330000
>>> ENDING 19330000
>>> REMARKS SURVIVING SPOUSE REUBEN ROBERT WOODS.
>>>
>>> I will look into the file. The birth day and month is the same and it
>>> appears as if there was a bit of confusion with all the dates or rather
>>> the
>>> years of birth. I know that Oupa Woods was well into his 90s when he
>>> died
>>> in
>>> 1971. His daughter, MJR was 72 at the time. It looks as if RR Woods and
>>> Hannah then gave the first child a combination of Hannah/s father and
>>> mother
>>> (hence Mary James Richard!)
>>> I am extremely grateful for all the info and will take a few days to
>>> just try and go through it all!!
>>>
>>> Btw, my home language is English.
>>>
>>> Thanks again!!
>>>
>>> Gert
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Tombi Peck
>>> To: Gert Esterhuizen
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 4:58 PM
>>> Subject: Descendants of Robert HART & Elizabeth DONALD (much
>>> earlier
>>> ancestors than Robert HART and Hannah TAMPLIN)
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Gert,
>>> Thank you for the information on a branch of the HART family I was
>>> unaware of!
>>> I've produced an Acrobat file of the infomation I have on the Hart
>>> Family....
>>> I hasten to add that there are mistakes...a couple of slips of the
>>> finger when tired caused problems...sometimes when it should read born
>>> in
>>> Cradock it may say born in St. Peter's Church, Cradock which is of
>>> course
>>> incorrect.....It's a 'work in progres' as the saying goes.
>>>
>>> I have not privatised the file because I find it so irritating not
>>> to
>>> have the information but I must ask you and anyone you may share this
>>> with
>>> to respect (in particular) the information on living people which could
>>> of
>>> course could lead to the information being used for Identity theft.
>>>
>>> There is also the factor of copyright.....I've taken a lot of notes
>>> from books and other printed material....it may not be reproduced onto a
>>> website or be published in any way as I haven't obtained permission to
>>> use
>>> the material other than for my own personal use.
>>>
>>> There are several descendants of Robert HART and Hannah TAMPLIN of
>>> Glen Avon who are called Hannah Tamplin HART. Comparing the name and the
>>> dates it is vey likely that the Hannah Tamplin HART you are interested
>>> in
>>> is
>>> the daughter James 'Richard' Klopper (Dickie) HART and Maria Isabella
>>> VAN
>>> DEN HEEVER. In turn James was the son of Andrew HART and Jemima
>>> Elizabeth
>>> WEBB; Andrew HART was the son of my ggg grandfather James HART and his
>>> second wife Martha Louisa KLOPPER. I'm descended from his first wife
>>> Maria
>>> Susanna Wilhelmina VAN AARDT.
>>>
>>> I'm forwarding the information you have sent me to the other
>>> descendants who are working on the tree....they are Grizel HART who is
>>> the
>>> wife of Hugh Meintjies HART, Ruth LEVINE (who lives in Scotland) she's
>>> also
>>> descended from Martha Louisa KLOPPER; Anton HART, and Garry
>>> HOWARD-BROWNE......
>>>
>>> Ek was in die Vrystaat grootgemaak maar my Afrikaans is nie mee
>>> vlot
>>> nie! Ek kan Afrikaans lees en verstaan. Unfortunately my written
>>> Afrikaans
>>> is not very good!! I have a number of Afrikaans speaking friends and
>>> relations who find writing in English very tricky...we've come to the
>>> agreement that they write in Afrikaans and I write in English....if I
>>> get
>>> stuck on a word I have a chap called Francois Greef (who lives here in
>>> England) whom I can speak with on SKYPE...he's very helpful and will
>>> translate the odd sentence for me.
>>>
>>> In case you have SKYPE my address is chloris31.
>>>
>>> If you try to find me in the file you will find me as Chloris Mary
>>> Irwin PECK born DEES aka Tombi Peck......
>>>
>>> I have quite a number of photographs of some of he HART family, the
>>> farm, Strathaven (in Scotland where Robert HART was born) and some of
>>> the
>>> HART Collection which is held at the Albany Museum.
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>> Tombi Peck
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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