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Archiver > SOUTH-AFRICA-IMMIGRANTS-BRITISH > 2003-01 > 1042711988


From: "V NIEDERBERGER" <>
Subject: Re: [ZA-IB] Muir Family
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:13:08 +0200
References: <OOEBLOFKHJKLEFDPCJOBOEKMCBAA.jofuller@direct.ca> <000901c2bd14$e3e311a0$162c38d2@mss>


My Dad was a gunner in the SA Air Force during WWII and he spoke [and I have
a photo] of being in Egypt before going over to Italy and France. So there
was at least one campaign for that part of the world.

Thanks all for the Muir info.

Regards

Viv Kymdell

SUMMERVELD,KZN
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eddie Edmondson" <>
To: <>
Sent: 16 January 2003 06:08
Subject: Re: [ZA-IB] Muir Family


> P.S. How about the South African Artillery. They were, I gather, in
> Abyssinia in WWII.
>
> Eddie
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Fuller" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 2:23 PM
> Subject: RE: [ZA-IB] Muir Family
>
>
> > Viv and Tessa:
> > OK, here goes. This is what 80-something-year-old Uncle Alf wrote down
in
> > 1997, when I asked him to list some information about his parents and
> > siblings:
> > Muirs born and bred in Dordrecht, Cape Province
> > Father of clan: Alfred William Muir, farmer, Dordrecht
> > Mother: Elizabeth Anne born Venter, district of Elliot, Cape Province
> > Arthur ? Muir: Qualified as chemist -- deceased
> > John Pienaar Muir: Banker, deceased (Uncle Alf actually wrote "banker
> +-108
> > years" but I think he was just joking -- I take it he means this brother
> was
> > a banker all his life)
> > Maud Louise Muir: Married Chummy Roivald or Ronald (name is hard to
read),
> > great guy, owned a hardware store in Harrismith, OFS. When he died, Maud
> > pined to such an extent that she starved to death
> > Ida Francis Muir: Married Greyvenstein, eventually divorced, went into
> > business and survived
> > Peter Oswald Muir: Farmer, Dordrecht and Griqualand East. Successful
type
> > Vivian Septimus Merriman Muir: Qualified mining surveyor. Joined SA
> > Engineering Corp. in Second World War but obtained transfer to SA Air
> Force.
> > Shot down twice in the desert flying Hurricanes. Moved to a Spitfire
> > squadron as captain. Later moved to Liberators. After war went into
> farming
> > at Dordrecht.
> > Louis Botha Muir: Farm manager in Southern Rhodesia for many years, then
> > joined (? illegible) Brigade for the East Africa campaign where he
> > contracted some disease and never recovered, eventually dying at the age
> of
> > about 31 years.
> > Alfred William Muir: Difficult youngster, not fond of being educated
(this
> > is Uncle Alf talking about himself). Joined Barclays bank (now First
> > National) at the age of 17. Finished engineering military training 1939,
> > April, called up Nov. 1939 to 2nd SA Field Engineering Corp. Returned
> after
> > battle of El Alamein 1943. At request of Monty joined 13th Field
Engineers
> > for invasion of Italy. Served to the end and returned to SA June 1945.
> > Rejoined bank.
> >
> > I'm puzzled by what Uncle Alf wrote about Louis Botha Muir because as
far
> as
> > I know there was no "East Africa campaign" in World War 2 -- that was
> World
> > War I, surely?. Unfortunately I can't read the name of the brigade he's
> said
> > to have joined -- it looks like a nine-letter word ending in "-iary" and
> > it's not "auxiliary."
> > This is all I have.
> > Regards,
> > John Fuller
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: V NIEDERBERGER [mailto:]
> > Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 2:54 PM
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: [ZA-IB] Muir Family
> >
> >
> > Hi John, Tessa,
> >
> > John, would you be kind enough to give us any other data you have on
Louis
> > Botha Muir et al?
> >
> > I have Alfred William Muir *Dordrecht 16.1.1872, x Elizabeth Venter, but
I
> > don't have their children. Alfred's parents were John Winter Muir
> > *11.9.1847+21.6 1934 x Matilda Wiggell xx c 1871 Anne Mundell 6.4.1854
> > +27.1.1937 with whom John had 11 children,Alfred being the eldest. John
> > Winter Muir's father was William James Muir x Rachel King.
> >
> > Was your Richard Muir x Jane Wiggell, dau of George Wiggell and Ann King
> of
> > the Winterberg? He had 5 sons, no Douglas Edmund.
> >
> > Tread carefully with Harry William - there is a Henry William as well
and
> > written genealogy inc SAG seem to confuse them, or there are errors. I
> have
> > not had time to sort out the muddle.
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> > Viv Kymdell
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Fuller" <>
> > To: <>
> > Sent: 13 January 2003 05:07
> > Subject: RE: [ZA-IB] Muir Family
> >
> >
> > > Hi Tessa,
> > > When my wife and I last visited South Africa, in 1997, we visited a
> > brother
> > > of one of her grandmothers, and I got him to write down some details
> about
> > > his family.
> > > One of his brothers, I recalled immediately when I read your posting,
> was
> > > named Louis Botha Muir (who could forget a name like that? As many
will
> > > recall, Louis Botha was the first prime minister of the Union of South
> > > Africa, holding that post from 1910 to 1919 )
> > > This brother was born in the early years of Louis Botha's prime
> > > ministership, although I don't have the exact date. The family was
from
> > the
> > > Dordrecht area in the Cape, and the parents were Alfred William Muir
and
> > > Elizabeth Anne Venter.
> > > Does this sound like your man?
> > > John Fuller
> > > (Researching FULLER, LANHAM, WYLDE)
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Tessa King [mailto:]
> > > Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 12:54 PM
> > > To:
> > > Subject: [ZA-IB] Muir Family
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello everyone
> > >
> > > Anyone know anything about Louis Botha MUIR born 16 Oct 1914 and
married
> > to
> > > Margaret Isobel MILDENHALL born 6 June 1918? Trying to ascertain the
> names
> > > of the parents and whether he belongs to the Muir family of John
Winter
> > > MUIR. They had the following children:
> > >
> > > Edwin Alfred m Cornelia Meiring
> > > Margaret m Mario Cattich
> > > Derryck Norman m Chrissie Jooste
> > > Michael Paul m Nola du Toit
> > > Bruce Louis * 28 May 1940
> > > Joyce * 6 Apr 1943 m Dan Esterhuizen
> > >
> > > Again, these names are in a gedcom that was sent to me a long time ago
> and
> > I
> > > am just trying to put things together as accurately as possible since
> the
> > > MUIR family and the KING families are related.
> > >
> > > Harry William MUIR had a son named Frederick. Does anyone know whether
> > this
> > > son is perhaps Frederick William MUIR married to Laura BOWES with
> > daughters
> > > Dorothy and Marjorie?
> > >
> > > Richard MUIR had a son named Douglas Edmund Muir. Did he marry
Kathleen
> > > Alice Frost and have a daughter named Peggy Muir m to Jim Koruman??
> > >
> > > A Matthew Muir married Myrtle Mary Bowker * 28 May 1885 at Woodville.
> Who
> > > are their parents??
> > >
> > > Then there is Sheila June Muir born abt 1840 and married to Norman
> Emslie
> > > Jakins. Whose daughter is she??
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Tessa King
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
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