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Archiver > SOUTH-AFRICA > 1998-06 > 0896872320


From: Dave Glenister <>
Subject: MOSENTHAL/WALDECK/CALDER
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 98 13:12 +0200


Dear Deidre

I apologise up front for this rather lengthy treatise, which is surely
enough to turn a genealogist's hair grey! I intended sending it to the list
but now that it's written, I think it would be wise for you to comment first
- if you care to! However, if you think it should go, please do forward it.

For quite some time now, I have been stuck on my SA Glenisters and have
realised that if I am to get anywhere, I have to start reading between the
lines a bit. It is, of course, one thing to record ones ancestors but quite
another to start forming an idea of how they lived and who they associated
with. As a result, I have been taking note of names and places which 'hang'
with the Glenisters and their connections. This can be very exciting and is
certainly helping me catch up on sadly neglected history education! For
months, some seemingly unimportant facts float around and then all at once, a
pattern begins to emerge - such a case may now be at hand ... and the
Waldecks and Mosenthals are part of it.

William George Glenister arrived in SA in the 1840s and it may be that he was
an orphan. His marriage to Mary Ann Calder is recorded in Grahamstown in
1864, a wedding at which Lucy Ulyate was a witness. Now, the Calders lived
at Lovedale (near Alice) where Joseph, the father, had a trading store. They
were there at about the same time as Charles Lennox Stretch, who established
the school at Lovedale and built his home, Domira. This surely can't be the
same Charles Stretch who married Edith Waldeck because the time slot seems
wrong. However, that there is a Waldeck/Stretch connection and that they had
a son Sidney Ulyate Stretch (your info), excites me. We do know that one of
the Calder daughters, Isabella (Mary Ann's sister), married Hendrik David
Waldeck circa 1852. I'd love to know what the connection is between the
Ulyate, Stretch or Waldeck families (always bearing in mind that Lucy Ulyate
was a witness at the Calder/Glenister wedding). Added to this nonsense is
the fact that Joseph Mosenthal married Sara Waldeck in 1843 (your info) and
that a Mr Glenister sings some extracts from popular opera at a concert in
Graaff-Reinet (1856), accompanied at the piano by Hermann Mosenthal (a
possible brother to Joseph?) If my memory serves me correct, Hermann was the
son of Friederich (sp?), court musician at Kassel - I din't note Joseph,
unfortunately.

This 'thread' then, runs from Lucy Ulyate, through the Calders to the Stretch
and Waldeck familes and finally to the Mosenthals. Since 'co-incidences' in
this game don't impress me, I am forced not to ignore this. The period
spans about 20 years and the places where events took place, not too far
removed, even for those days. The Mosenthals were involved in wool and hide
trading in the E Cape and had offices in Graaff-Reinet and Port Elizabeth ...
the Calders and Stretch families were near Alice ... the Waldecks were in
Graaff-Reinet and must also have been near Alice/Grahamstown and the Ulyates
were mostly in Grahamstown, as far as I know. William George Glenister was
an accountant of sorts and I'd love to find his name on the staff list of
Mosenthals - my efforts to find out were fruitless.

Please, Deidre, would you let me know if you have any Ulyate connections and
who they are. I am worried about the Charles Stretch dates and will check
from my end - maybe I was wrong about Stretch being at Lovedale when the
Calders were there. Any further comment appreciated, if you have time.

Regards ... Dave

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