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From: Keith Meintjes <>
Subject: Re: [LIEBENBERG STAMVADER'S ORIGIN]
Date: 10 Jul 2001 18:05:50 EDT


Bill,

Colenbrander's "Afkomst de Boeren" gives his birthplace as Liebenwerda,
Germany. (He is a "Duitscher".)

There is nothing in "Familia".

The following, in the GISA library, is of doubtful relevance (my opinion,
based on the title).

LIEBENBERG
Family historical gleanings: Liebenberg, Kiteley, Doyle
Liebenberg, D P
1978

Best wishes,
Keith
===========================================

"Bill Wilson" <> wrote:
I have been wrestling with the Eurpean origin of the Liebenberg Stamvader.
The results are presumptive.

I make this posting for two reasons:
1/. I'd welcome all and any comments; 2/. To have at least one hypothesis on
the List Archive.

The LIEBENBERG stamvader is clearly reported to have come from Mnchenberg:

Source #1: His will, dated 1735 reads "landbouwen von Munnikberg".
Since "Munnik" is the Dutch translation of the German "Mnchen" ["Munick" in
English], I read this as Mnchenberg.

Source #2: Heese & Lombard, SA Genealogies, volume 5 [L-M] reads "van
Mnchenberg".

Source #3: Personalia of the Germans at the Cape by Dr. J. Hoge reads:
"...Mnchenberg". [note: this source at least confirms that he was German].

Source #4: de Villiers Geslacht-Registers reads: "Liebenwerda".
[the odd one out!]

Where is this Mnchenberg?

- the only Mnchenberg I have found is a very small village of about 20
houses [in 2001] - too small for most maps, which is today incorporated into
the small town of Rsrath, just south-east of Cologne (West Germany), which
does show on internet maps. It seems few Germans other than the locals in
Rsrath are familiar with the place name of Mnchenberg.

- there is a Mncheberg [note different spelling] about 40 km east of Berlin
[old East Germany]

- there is a Mnchberg [note different spelling] about 35 km north of
Bayreuth

Comment:
There is also a very small village called Liebenberg. It is about
40 km north of Berlin [old East Germany]; close by is the village of
Liebenwalde. Liebenwalde means Lovely-Forests [or Woods ]
(should the Liebenwerda in de Villiers' work actually be Liebenwalde?).

The village of Liebenberg was once home to the royal Eulenberg-Hertefeld
family. Their lands stretched from Weeze (north east of Cologne) to
Liebenberg and back to the lower Rhine. This expanse of land includes ALL of
the above possibilities, except Mnchberg. I have, therefore, removed the
latter from the list of potential locations.

I believe that Christiaan Liebenberg came from Mnchenberg, the village just
east of Cologne.

Rationale:
1/. It seems quite feasible that a serf, born near Liebenberg, could have
been moved - either willingly or not - to either Mnchenberg (near Cologne)
or Mncheberg. However, the former, being so close to the Rhine, would have
provided easier access to Holland (and a passage to the Cape).

2/. The spoken German language is very precise. Every syllable is
pronounced. [For example, the famous sports car is pronounced PorschE, not
Porsch]. This would lend credence to Christiaan Liebenberg claiming that he
was from Mnchenberg (as recorded)
and not Mncheberg.

Bill Wilson


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