Archiver > SOUTH-AFRICA > 2005-07 > 1122817478

From: Andrew Rodger <>
Subject: Reply: Beelders Family History, Cape Town.
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 23:44:38 +1000
In-Reply-To: <000701c59113$3598f530$90e9eddc@n6o4k0>

Dear Graeme, This letter may be rather late; however, I hope not. This
is Andrew's better half for what's that worth! I am a Luddite and am
hopeless with the computer so I am desperately hoping that you receive
this in time or are in a position to pass my telephone on to
Brendan.Our phone number is (03)94591898. I have several commitments
during the days to come but if Brendan is able to contact me at night
then we can arrange a time to meet or he may be able to come to
Heidelberg to our home.
Andrew is in the USA at present , visiting our daughter , Gillian and
I have just read an e-mail from him telling how very hot and humid it
is in Milwaukee; also that he is busy doing odd jobs about the place
which she purchased 2 years ago, Gillian lectures in the Music
department of Madison University in Milwaukee. She enjoys the challenge
of teaching in academia, although it is my fervent prayer that she will
return to Australia eventually. Andrew will return to Melbourne on the
18th August. I have until recently had my right hand and arm in a
plaster cast having had a freak accident in a garden at the end of
April & due to advanced age compared to the younger generation the
bones have taken ages to heal. It will be interesting to meet Brendan
so I hope that this will eventuate. My apologies for the delay in
replying but I only log on every 2-3 days and was surprised to find a
letter from you. Andrew is the computer buff and passes on all the
rootsweb information to me if relevant. I hope you receive this by the
1st August. Meanwhile, kind regards, Ann Rodger nee Beelders.
PS I shall now go and look up my file which has a list of all my
and the younger generation listed on the pages. the Beelders family
tree. His name is Brendan Beelders and is Clarence Beelders son. He
will be in Melbourne in the next week. I know this is sudden,,,,,,,,,,
is there any chance of him having a chat to yr wife and yourself
inorder to research the Beelders clan hopefully to fill in gaps ??
> I will understand if u cannot accomodate his request as it is
> at such short notice !! Keep well, Graeme Samuels.
> P.S. had my DNA tested earlier this year and am still
> poring over the results....G.S.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Rodger"
> <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 9:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [ZA] DNA Studies & Genealogy [was Cape Town Family
> History Society August Meeting]
>> Interesting development.
>> However, one must be careful about this, as not all surnames are
>> equally suitable for this line of research. In particular, people
>> with occupational surnames, place-names and patronymics are less
>> likely to be related to each other than some others. The reason why
>> Jones and Williams and Evans are such common surnames in Wales is
>> that John, William and Evan are common forenames. And of course
>> names beginning with Mac or ending in -son are also patronymics.
>> (But not Arabic names beginning with Abu, since what follows may well
>> be an abstract quality like courage, and the name is therefore more
>> of the nature of the third name in Roman times, the cognomen, which
>> was a nickname, e.g. Fabius Maximus Cunctator, so called because of
>> his habit of procrastinating.) But John is not any more likely than
>> William to be related to another John. Similarly, names like Smith,
>> Fuller, Taylor, etc., being occupational names, are common but not
>> necessarily related, and Dutch names are notoriously derived from the
>> place, rather than the family, from which the person came, such as
>> van Deventer, van Rijn, etc., and, in the Cape, van de Kaap.
>> In addition, descriptive names like Long, Short, Brown, any words
>> meaning red (le Roux, etc.), were appended to given names to
>> distinguish one holder of a common name from another. It is only
>> when you get to relatively modern times that surnames become a
>> reliable indicator of the ancestry of common people (as distinct from
>> the aristocracy, to whom descent was of course immensely important
>> because their position depended on it!) and the further back you go
>> the harder it becomes. I suspect the Williamsons mentioned below
>> who shared some DNA markers were either closely related (i.e. with a
>> common Williamson ancestor since the time surnames became reliable)
>> or share an ancestor with a name other than Williamson.
>> On Tuesday, August 12, 2003, at 03:47 AM, Kammie wrote:
>>> PS. Listed below, several X-posting by Northern American 'rooters'
>>> seeemingly about the new avenue being followed to broadcast surname
>>> research
>>> across ROOTS-L mailinglist.
>>> X-Message: #2
>>> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 14:47:52 -0700
>>> From: "Bette Richards" <>
>>> Subject: Bunker
>>> The Bunker Family Assn. is involved in a surname DNA project and
>>> looking for
>>> participants. We have already discovered that contrary to common
>>> belief the
>>> Devon and Beds Bunkers are not even remotely related. There are
>>> Bunkers
>>> from England, France, Germany, India, Puerto Rico, Mexico,
>>> Australia, New
>>> Zealand and Thailand. There are also Bunkers who are Native
>>> American and
>>> African American. We would like to sort all of them out. If you
>>> are a
>>> Bunker and are interested or know a Bunker who might be interested,
>>> please
>>> contact me at or check our website at
>>> Thanks. Bette
>>> List members.
>>> A WILLIAMSON surname Y-chromosome DNA project has been started.
>>> WilliamsonSurn
>>> am
>>> eProject.htm
>>> So far we have had two participants, my self and Williamson, Kit #
>>> 10560.
>>> We had suspected we might have a common ancestor, but did not know
>>> for sure.
>>> The test results are back and we do have a common ancestor.
>>> Our markers are an exact match.
>>> Williamson_Res
>>> ul
>>> ts.htm
>>> If any person in this list has the above surname, or knows anyone
>>> with
>>> the WILLIAMSON surname, please contact Richard Williamson at the
>>> following
>>> e-mail address .
>>> Richard
>>> Tucson, AZ
>>> Subject: Skeen/Skene DNA Project
>>> We started a DNA Skeen/Skene and other names of that ilk surname
>>> project
>>> about a year ago. To date we have had good results in the 12 marker
>>> test and
>>> have now broadened our project to include the 24 marker test.
>>> The sole purpose of the project is to find people with this surname
>>> that
>>> share a common ancestor, as well as identifying the different lines
>>> and
>>> possible points of origin for them.
>>> If any person in this list has the Skeen/Skene surname, or knows
>>> anyone with
>>> these surnames and ilk thereof, please contact me at
>>> .
>>> These tests only work for a male descendant that descends from a male
>>> descendant with the Skeen/Skene surname.
>>> Thank you kindly for your attention.
>>> Tom Skeen
>>> ------------------------------
>>> Subject: Skidmore Genealogy Surname Project
>>> A SKIDMORE surname DNA project using 26 Y DNA markers has been
>>> underway for
>>> the past several months at Relative Genetics
>>> Our purpose is to find out if people with this surname share a common
>>> ancestor, as well as confirming the published research on the
>>> different
>>> lines. Representatives of many of these lines live in the US,
>>> England,
>>> Canada, Nova Scotia, and Australia.
>>> About 20 persons from the US and England have been tested to date.
>>> The first
>>> genetic/genealogy report by Relative Genetics has confirmed research
>>> as
>>> published for the two major lines who now exist in the US, England
>>> and in
>>> other countries.
>>> This report can be seen at the Relative Genetics web site or it can
>>> be
>>> requested from me at
>>> We will welcome participation of any male person with the Skidmore
>>> surname
>>> who is interested in scientifically proving their conventional
>>> genealogy
>>> research or taking advantage of we have already learned. Females
>>> with a male
>>> Skidmore cousin, brother, or parent can be included using the
>>> relative as a
>>> proxy.
>>> Questions may be directed to me at .
>>> Subject: HEFFLER Group Surname/DNA program
>>> JewishGen and FTDNA are pleased to announce an extension to the
>>> Genealogy by
>>> Genetics project currently in place. The Group Surname/DNA program
>>> will
>>> analyze Y chromosome DNA markers in families with surnames that
>>> appear to be
>>> derived from the same surname, in this instance all variants derived
>>> from
>>> the surname HEFFLER e.g. HEFLER, HOEFLER, and any other possible
>>> variants..
>>> We need at least one male direct descendant from each family group to
>>> include that surname in the project .
>>> Our hypothesis is that they may be descended from a common male
>>> ancestor,
>>> who lived 250-900 years ago. Thus far, these families appear to be
>>> unconnected except by similar sounding surnames. The Y chromosome
>>> test that
>>> looks only at male descendents can tell us whether any of these
>>> families are
>>> related, and if so, within how many generations. Each participant
>>> will need
>>> to submit a sample of cells gently swabbed from the inside of their
>>> cheek.
>>> An explanation of the test and answers to frequently asked questions
>>> about Y
>>> Chromosome DNA markers are at:
>>> Briefly, the test examines the genetic sequences at each of 25 sites
>>> on the
>>> Y Chromosome. These sites are called markers. If two men share the
>>> exactly
>>> same sequences at all twenty five sites we can be fairly certain
>>> that the
>>> men have a recent common ancestor.
>>> For this group surname y-dna project, we need direct male
>>> descendents of the
>>> family names derived from HEFFLER as listed above. A kit for the
>>> analysis
>>> can be obtained from FTDNA through the Group's ordering page at
>>> When a sampling kit is ordered from this site, it will allow for the
>>> Group
>>> pricing, and the analysis results will be added to the Group's data
>>> base. In
>>> addition, any Group member whose Y Chromosome shares all 25 markers
>>> with
>>> anyone else in the laboratory's 11,000+ Y Chromosome data base, will
>>> be
>>> immediately notified if they select that option. The discounted
>>> group price
>>> of each analysis including shipping is $171.00. The discounted group
>>> price
>>> of the 12 marker test is $99. As mentioned in an earlier note, I
>>> will pay
>>> half of the first five tests.
>>> The link can be
>>> published
>>> in newsletters or other online websites and publications that you are
>>> approaching to look for potential participants who may be unknown to
>>> you at
>>> this point. This requires the person to fill a form that explains
>>> why they
>>> want to join the group, and ask for our permission to do so. They
>>> will then
>>> be entitled to the discounted group pricing available to
>>> participants in
>>> this project.
>>> Please feel free to copy this message to anyone who may fit the
>>> surname
>>> criteria and ask them to contact me at
>>> I am developing a web page for this project at
>>> .
>>> ------------------------------
>>> Subject: FLESHER DNA Project
>>> A FLESHER surname DNA project has been started. The purpose is to
>>> find
>>> out if people with this surname share a common ancestor, as well as
>>> identifying the different lines and possible points of origin for
>>> them.
>>> If any person in this list has the above surname, or knows anyone
>>> with
>>> the FLESHER surname including the spellings FLEISHER and FLEISCHER,
>>> please contact the following
>>> From:
>>> Subject: Morrow DNA testing project
>>> A Morrow surname DNA project has been started. Any Morrow male
>>> is invited to join. The purpose is to find out if participants with
>>> this
>>> surname
>>> share a common ancestor, as well as identifying the different lines
>>> and possible points of origin for them. If any person in this list
>>> is a male
>>> Morrow, or knows a male with the Morrow surname who might join,
>>> please contact Bill Morrow at the following email address:
>>> ===========================================================
>>> Subject: Dever DNA project
>>> A DEVER surname DNA project has been started. The purpose is to find
>>> out if people with this surname share a common ancestor, as well as
>>> identifying the different lines and possible points of origin for
>>> them. If
>>> any person in this list has the above surname, or knows anyone with
>>> the Dever surname, please contact Patricia at the following
>>> e-mail address
>>> The Dever/Diver surname seems to originate in Ireland with quite a
>>> few
>>> families ending up in Canada and the US. The paper trail in Ireland
>>> goes
>>> cold in the early 1800's and we are planning to find out the
>>> connections
>>> between the various families through DNA testing.
>>> Patricia Greber (Dever)
>>> ------------------------------
>>> Subject: Roache-Roach-Roche DNA Testing
>>> A Roache-Roach-Roche surname DNA project has been started. Our
>>> purpose is to
>>> find out if people with this surname share a common ancestor, as
>>> well as
>>> identifying the different family lines and points of origin for
>>> them...usually in western Europe.
>>> If anyone on this list is from a Ro(a)ch(e) - including non-anglo
>>> families
>>> like DesRoche, De Rocher, de la Rocca, etc., or knows anyone with
>>> these or
>>> related surnames, please contact me. We get a special group rate -
>>> but I
>>> have NO commercial interest.
>>> Please feel free to visit my family web site and scroll down a
>>> little to the
>>> white box for additional information re DNA:
>>> Jim
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