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Archiver > STEER > 2008-04 > 1209115598


From: Dr Chris Burgoyne <>
Subject: Re: [STEER] STEER resources
Date: 25 Apr 2008 10:26:38 +0100
References: <030201c8a318$08da3580$c3304354@your904q9zk0ar><Prayer.1.1.0.0804202028310.1882@hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk><039401c8a337$b6e970e0$c3304354@your904q9zk0ar><003201c8a4d7$6b7c20c0$4001a8c0@DILLON><02b001c8a603$b00724b0$a430883e@your904q9zk0ar>
In-Reply-To: <02b001c8a603$b00724b0$a430883e@your904q9zk0ar>


Jack/Jon

I am not going to put the Steer Vets onto the Hingston page, since I have
to be fairly restrictive about what I put there or it would get out of
hand. I keep my own personal family history as a series of web pages on my
own computer, which I do not publish but do copy to cousins if they want
them. The information I have about the Steer Vets is basically the
information that has been circulated here on a couple of occasions. If
someone puts up something for the Steer information I would gladly
contribute what I have.

My reservation about a Wiki-style site is that it is likely to get out of
hand. Our best resource at the moment is Jack's mind! He takes in and sifts
the information, and then passes it out whenever he thinks it would be
useful. I have enormous respect for his knowledge and work (and enjoyed
meeting him at the Steerfest a few years ago!).

My experience with the Hingston site is that I get lots of emails that need
to be checked. I ask for information in a standard format, but I don't get
it that way - I have to sift it so that others can make sense of it. I also
find that some of it conflicts - people have an enormous capacity to make 2
+ 2 = 5, especially when 5 suits their pre-conceived ideas of their descent
from someone famous (or infamous). I also find that people want to publish
other pages showing lines that descend from Hingstons, which would get way
out of hand if I didn't enforce a firm rule. I don't publish lines coming
from Hingston daughters unless the children were illegitimate so carried on
the Hingston name. Finally, I get people asking me to publish their trees
down to the present day, including lots of information about cousins. So I
impose a 100 year rule unless I have specific assurance that I can put in a
link (which tends to be of the form " is the great
grandson of Fred Hingston and would welcome contact with cousins")

This is all a long way of saying that someone (and that would inevitably
have to be Jack) would have to exert either an editorial role before
information is published (as I do with the Hingstons), or a moderating role
after publication (which is what would be needed for a wiki-style site).
Either way the management role (to keep consistency of the information) is
probably a much harder job than physically setting up the site.

I think we should only proceed if someone is willing to do the work. That
is going to require both great familiarity with the Steer side of things,
and also familiarity with the processes of maintaining a site.

I have joined several family-based sites set up for names in which I have
an interest that have flourished for a few months and then died when the
first flush of enthusiasm wears off. I have made interesting connections
through them though, so perhaps even six months of activity is better than
none.

I am sorry if this comes over as a negative comment on the proposal, but I
think it is necessary to face up to these things before we start.

Regards

Chris











On Apr 24 2008, Jack Steer wrote:

>
>Thanks Jon
>
>I'm not at all sure that I understand the technology, but that does an
>interesting idea.
>
> Just wondered if it would be appropriate to wait for Chris to update his
> HINGSTON site with his vets? Alternatively an up and running format could
> be used by Chris, but from his email it sounded as though he had done
> almost all the work to allow publication.
>
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Jack Steer
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jon and Sue Steer" <>
>To: <>
>Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 1:17 AM
>Subject: Re: [STEER] STEER resources
>
>
>> Hi Jack, Chris and all,
>>
>> The Hingston site does look like a useful solution but I think the
>> underlying technology can be improved upon - if the site was run using a
>> Wiki system (see Wikipedia for the best known example) then the job of
>> editing can be opened up to as many users as desired with no danger of
>> losing data when changes are made as every version of every page is
>> logged and changes can easily be undone if needed. Also, you don't need
>> to be able to edit (or understand) HTML to update Wiki pages, there is
>> usually a word-style editor used to edit pages in place.
>>
>> Many Wiki systems also allow discussion of individual pages to take
>> place as a way of reviewing and exploring new or forthcoming changes.
>>
>> If this sounds of interest I'd happy to dig out a system, get it up and
>> running so you can all have a look at how it could work and then look
>> after
>> it (from the technology side at least.)
>>
>> Jon
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jack Steer" <>
>> To: <>
>> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 11:41 PM
>> Subject: Re: [STEER] STEER resources
>>
>>
>>> Chris,
>>>
>>> Thanks for that. I hadn't even thought about the HINGSTON site, which
>>> is a bit silly as I have a Cornish connection there.
>>>
>>> I think that it is perhaps the most practical solution to the dilemma
>>> that
>>> is being discussed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <As an example, see http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/cjb/hingston/ha.htm
>>> (which
>>> has a Steer link within it!)>
>>>
>>> Jane was the daughter of Jasper STEER and Sarah nee BARTLET and was
>>> baptised
>>> 17.2.1788 in Loddiswell, Devon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <I have a version of the Steer Vets ready to go!>
>>>
>>> That sounds wonderful. I shall look forward to it with eager
>>> anticipation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Jack Steer
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Dr Chris Burgoyne" <>
>>> To: <>
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 8:28 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [STEER] STEER resources
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dear Jack
>>>>
>>>> I faced the same dilemma when I started my HINGSTON pages. Simply
>>>> recording a list of events, either by date order or by parish, or a
>>>> list of census returns, is not easy for other people to understand.
>>>> Copying lists also runs the risk of infringing copyright law, which
>>>> can be a minefield.
>>>>
>>>> So I decided to assemble the information in the form of Trees, each of
>>>> which follows the Descendancy Report format that many programs will
>>>> produce, although I do not keep a separate database of entries and in
>>>> fact
>>>> everything is entered by hand. That allows me to add extra information
>>>> as
>>>> and when it becomes available and gives me the freedom to amend the
>>>> format
>>>> if it becomes necessary.
>>>>
>>>> As an example, see http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/cjb/hingston/ha.htm
>>>> (which has a Steer link within it!)
>>>>
>>>> Other people can then access these trees, but not edit them. They have
>>>> to
>>>> send me the information, which means I can keep some control of the
>>>> format.
>>>>
>>>> There is a link at the bottom of that page to the main HINGSTON site,
>>>> so you can see what else is provided.
>>>>
>>>> I think the format works well, but it has the drawback that you have
>>>> to be able to edit HTML files, although there are plenty of simple
>>>> programs around to help you so you don't have to get down to the level
>>>> of writing HTML code. You also have to have somewhere where you can
>>>> post the information; I fortunately have an employer who is content
>>>> for me to have a couple of MBytes of file space, which is pretty
>>>> trivial by today's standards.
>>>>
>>>> I am not going to offer to do the same for the STEERs - I simply don't
>>>> have
>>>> time, but I would be happy to pass on advice if anyone wanted to follow
>>>> my
>>>> example.
>>>>
>>>> (I have a version of the Steer Vets ready to go!)
>>>>
>>>> Chris Burgoyne
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 20 2008, Jack Steer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Steve, Brian and Peter and et al
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It's very possible that I have a slightly warped sense of the STEER
>>>>> family. When I sat down with my father in 1973 to look at the
>>>>> transcriptions that he had done in the vestry in South Milton, we
>>>>> realised very quickly that the family had barely moved from the
>>>>> parish in 200 years. When they did it was to such far flung spots as
>>>>> Thurlestone or Aveton Gifford, neither more than a couple of miles
>>>>> away. So doing the basics was remarkably easy and in one evening we'd
>>>>> broken the back of our STEER line. We had no need to ferret around in
>>>>> other counties, it was sitting there, ready for us. Visit South
>>>>> Milton churchyard and you can see my family's graves in a stately
>>>>> procession close to the south door.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So I thought this research business was easy and proceeded with the
>>>>> assumption that one carried on as we had started. At work I did not
>>>>> introduce a computer system into a commercial environment until the
>>>>> basic
>>>>> information flow system was working properly. The seventies saw some
>>>>> spectacular bankruptcies caused by ignoring this maxim.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> When I eventually got a computer I carried on with a similar
>>>>> philosophy. I had to understand what I was doing, for I saw little
>>>>> point in a system that I did not understand. I tried things like FTM
>>>>> and PAF and just got frustrated that they did not do what I wanted,
>>>>> nor could I understand how they worked.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps I'm too decrepit to change now, although my son did persuade
>>>>> me two years ago to save things on the hard drive rather than on
>>>>> loads of floppies. That was a major step for me.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Gaynor's original question to the list was
>>>>>
>>>>> <Would it be worth setting up a web site where we can all take
>>>>> responsibility to transcribe certain areas of the census returns and
>>>>> the
>>>>> BMI information, taking the central towns and villages in Devon to
>>>>> start
>>>>> with where the STEER name derives from, them branching out.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do realise that it will not be a few weeks work but a few years to
>>>>> get the site usable, but then all this information that is being
>>>>> contribute about the STEER name via e mails could be used buy us all
>>>>> as and when we need it in a format that is searchable.
>>>>>
>>>>>What do you think?>
>>>>>
>>>>> My view is that the answer is probably, as we are on this list because
>>>>> we
>>>>> have a particular interest in our own STEER family. If we choose to do
>>>>> more generic transcriptions then that is outside the scope of this
>>>>> list.
>>>>>
>>>>> But however desirable such a project may be I don't think that it is a
>>>>> workable option.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Peter wrote
>>>>>
>>>>> <To meld all this disparate data into anything approaching universal
>>>>> comprehension is nigh on impossible.>
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree, it would be akin to the League of Nations all over again, a
>>>>> good
>>>>> idea, but it did not achieve any of the high ideals that were set at
>>>>> its
>>>>> inception.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>Jack Steer
>>>>>Banbury
>>>>>
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