STEER-L Archives

Archiver > STEER > 2008-04 > 1209297231


From: "Jack Steer" <>
Subject: Re: [STEER] STEER resources
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:53:51 +0100
References: <030201c8a318$08da3580$c3304354@your904q9zk0ar><Prayer.1.1.0.0804202028310.1882@hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk><039401c8a337$b6e970e0$c3304354@your904q9zk0ar><003201c8a4d7$6b7c20c0$4001a8c0@DILLON><02b001c8a603$b00724b0$a430883e@your904q9zk0ar><Prayer.1.1.0.0804251026380.9586@hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk>


Thanks Chris



<My reservation about a Wiki-style site is that it is likely to get out of
hand.>

That is possible, but would it be that much different than the STEER list.
What I find is that I get more emails from people who have read a message
posted to the list years ago, than are posted to the list. Often they meet
the criteria that 2 + 2 = 5 or even more.



I'm never sure about a rigid 100 year rule. My mother is 96 and shews no
sign of moving on. When she reaches 100, she could appear on the web,
whereas I always try to avoid publishing anything where the person is
living. That may be a lot less than 100 and it is difficult to be that
restrictive when fairly recent BDM registrations in the UK are available on
line, as are some records in America and articles in the press.



The only problem that I have is with the thought that I should make myself
free to exert either an editorial or a moderating role. List members know
well enough that I have been forced to disappear from time to time and that
any such offer may be withdrawn at some point and probably quite suddenly.
It would be foolish of me to even make a tentative offer to look at any
information that does not relate to the south west or even the South Hams.
That is the area where I have most information and interest and in any case
already like to have my four pennorth on the list. So I don't see much
difference in that.



In any case any queries on published trees would inevitably be referred to
the list and problems thrashed out. As far as I know there is no HINGSTON
list available to help to deal with queries.



Chris wrote that

<I have joined several family-based sites set up for names in which I have
an interest that have flourished for a few months and then died when the
first flush of enthusiasm wears off. I have made interesting connections
through them though, so perhaps even six months of activity is better than
none.>

That's networking. I don't need to have the answer to any question, but I do
need to be in contact with someone who can provide the answer. That and a
fair bit of common sense is why the STEER list has been so successful. And
six months of increased activity could be really helpful to all of us.

And

<I am sorry if this comes over as a negative comment on the proposal, but I
think it is necessary to face up to these things before we start.>

Not negative at all. The comments are well made and we do need to be aware
of possible pitfalls. But we don't know what, if any, problems may arise
unless we give it a go.



I just want to see what Jon comes up with.



Regards,

Jack Steer



----- Original Message -----
From: "Dr Chris Burgoyne" <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: [STEER] STEER resources


> Jack/Jon
>
> I am not going to put the Steer Vets onto the Hingston page, since I have
> to be fairly restrictive about what I put there or it would get out of
> hand. I keep my own personal family history as a series of web pages on my
> own computer, which I do not publish but do copy to cousins if they want
> them. The information I have about the Steer Vets is basically the
> information that has been circulated here on a couple of occasions. If
> someone puts up something for the Steer information I would gladly
> contribute what I have.
>
> My reservation about a Wiki-style site is that it is likely to get out of
> hand. Our best resource at the moment is Jack's mind! He takes in and
> sifts
> the information, and then passes it out whenever he thinks it would be
> useful. I have enormous respect for his knowledge and work (and enjoyed
> meeting him at the Steerfest a few years ago!).
>
> My experience with the Hingston site is that I get lots of emails that
> need
> to be checked. I ask for information in a standard format, but I don't get
> it that way - I have to sift it so that others can make sense of it. I
> also
> find that some of it conflicts - people have an enormous capacity to make
> 2
> + 2 = 5, especially when 5 suits their pre-conceived ideas of their
> descent
> from someone famous (or infamous). I also find that people want to publish
> other pages showing lines that descend from Hingstons, which would get way
> out of hand if I didn't enforce a firm rule. I don't publish lines coming
> from Hingston daughters unless the children were illegitimate so carried
> on
> the Hingston name. Finally, I get people asking me to publish their trees
> down to the present day, including lots of information about cousins. So I
> impose a 100 year rule unless I have specific assurance that I can put in
> a
> link (which tends to be of the form " is the great
> grandson of Fred Hingston and would welcome contact with cousins")
>
> This is all a long way of saying that someone (and that would inevitably
> have to be Jack) would have to exert either an editorial role before
> information is published (as I do with the Hingstons), or a moderating
> role
> after publication (which is what would be needed for a wiki-style site).
> Either way the management role (to keep consistency of the information) is
> probably a much harder job than physically setting up the site.
>
> I think we should only proceed if someone is willing to do the work. That
> is going to require both great familiarity with the Steer side of things,
> and also familiarity with the processes of maintaining a site.
>
> I have joined several family-based sites set up for names in which I have
> an interest that have flourished for a few months and then died when the
> first flush of enthusiasm wears off. I have made interesting connections
> through them though, so perhaps even six months of activity is better than
> none.
>
> I am sorry if this comes over as a negative comment on the proposal, but I
> think it is necessary to face up to these things before we start.
>
> Regards
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 24 2008, Jack Steer wrote:
>
>>
>>Thanks Jon
>>
>>I'm not at all sure that I understand the technology, but that does an
>>interesting idea.
>>
>> Just wondered if it would be appropriate to wait for Chris to update his
>> HINGSTON site with his vets? Alternatively an up and running format could
>> be used by Chris, but from his email it sounded as though he had done
>> almost all the work to allow publication.
>>
>>
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Jack Steer
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Jon and Sue Steer" <>
>>To: <>
>>Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 1:17 AM
>>Subject: Re: [STEER] STEER resources
>>
>>
>>> Hi Jack, Chris and all,
>>>
>>> The Hingston site does look like a useful solution but I think the
>>> underlying technology can be improved upon - if the site was run using a
>>> Wiki system (see Wikipedia for the best known example) then the job of
>>> editing can be opened up to as many users as desired with no danger of
>>> losing data when changes are made as every version of every page is
>>> logged and changes can easily be undone if needed. Also, you don't need
>>> to be able to edit (or understand) HTML to update Wiki pages, there is
>>> usually a word-style editor used to edit pages in place.
>>>
>>> Many Wiki systems also allow discussion of individual pages to take
>>> place as a way of reviewing and exploring new or forthcoming changes.
>>>
>>> If this sounds of interest I'd happy to dig out a system, get it up and
>>> running so you can all have a look at how it could work and then look
>>> after
>>> it (from the technology side at least.)
>>>
>>> Jon
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Jack Steer" <>
>>> To: <>
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 11:41 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [STEER] STEER resources
>>>
>>>
>>>> Chris,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for that. I hadn't even thought about the HINGSTON site, which
>>>> is a bit silly as I have a Cornish connection there.
>>>>
>>>> I think that it is perhaps the most practical solution to the dilemma
>>>> that
>>>> is being discussed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <As an example, see http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/cjb/hingston/ha.htm
>>>> (which
>>>> has a Steer link within it!)>
>>>>
>>>> Jane was the daughter of Jasper STEER and Sarah nee BARTLET and was
>>>> baptised
>>>> 17.2.1788 in Loddiswell, Devon
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <I have a version of the Steer Vets ready to go!>
>>>>
>>>> That sounds wonderful. I shall look forward to it with eager
>>>> anticipation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Jack Steer
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Dr Chris Burgoyne" <>
>>>> To: <>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 8:28 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [STEER] STEER resources
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Jack
>>>>>
>>>>> I faced the same dilemma when I started my HINGSTON pages. Simply
>>>>> recording a list of events, either by date order or by parish, or a
>>>>> list of census returns, is not easy for other people to understand.
>>>>> Copying lists also runs the risk of infringing copyright law, which
>>>>> can be a minefield.
>>>>>
>>>>> So I decided to assemble the information in the form of Trees, each of
>>>>> which follows the Descendancy Report format that many programs will
>>>>> produce, although I do not keep a separate database of entries and in
>>>>> fact
>>>>> everything is entered by hand. That allows me to add extra information
>>>>> as
>>>>> and when it becomes available and gives me the freedom to amend the
>>>>> format
>>>>> if it becomes necessary.
>>>>>
>>>>> As an example, see http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/cjb/hingston/ha.htm
>>>>> (which has a Steer link within it!)
>>>>>
>>>>> Other people can then access these trees, but not edit them. They have
>>>>> to
>>>>> send me the information, which means I can keep some control of the
>>>>> format.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is a link at the bottom of that page to the main HINGSTON site,
>>>>> so you can see what else is provided.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the format works well, but it has the drawback that you have
>>>>> to be able to edit HTML files, although there are plenty of simple
>>>>> programs around to help you so you don't have to get down to the level
>>>>> of writing HTML code. You also have to have somewhere where you can
>>>>> post the information; I fortunately have an employer who is content
>>>>> for me to have a couple of MBytes of file space, which is pretty
>>>>> trivial by today's standards.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am not going to offer to do the same for the STEERs - I simply don't
>>>>> have
>>>>> time, but I would be happy to pass on advice if anyone wanted to
>>>>> follow
>>>>> my
>>>>> example.
>>>>>
>>>>> (I have a version of the Steer Vets ready to go!)
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris Burgoyne
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 20 2008, Jack Steer wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Steve, Brian and Peter and et al
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's very possible that I have a slightly warped sense of the STEER
>>>>>> family. When I sat down with my father in 1973 to look at the
>>>>>> transcriptions that he had done in the vestry in South Milton, we
>>>>>> realised very quickly that the family had barely moved from the
>>>>>> parish in 200 years. When they did it was to such far flung spots as
>>>>>> Thurlestone or Aveton Gifford, neither more than a couple of miles
>>>>>> away. So doing the basics was remarkably easy and in one evening we'd
>>>>>> broken the back of our STEER line. We had no need to ferret around in
>>>>>> other counties, it was sitting there, ready for us. Visit South
>>>>>> Milton churchyard and you can see my family's graves in a stately
>>>>>> procession close to the south door.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So I thought this research business was easy and proceeded with the
>>>>>> assumption that one carried on as we had started. At work I did not
>>>>>> introduce a computer system into a commercial environment until the
>>>>>> basic
>>>>>> information flow system was working properly. The seventies saw some
>>>>>> spectacular bankruptcies caused by ignoring this maxim.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When I eventually got a computer I carried on with a similar
>>>>>> philosophy. I had to understand what I was doing, for I saw little
>>>>>> point in a system that I did not understand. I tried things like FTM
>>>>>> and PAF and just got frustrated that they did not do what I wanted,
>>>>>> nor could I understand how they worked.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Perhaps I'm too decrepit to change now, although my son did persuade
>>>>>> me two years ago to save things on the hard drive rather than on
>>>>>> loads of floppies. That was a major step for me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Gaynor's original question to the list was
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <Would it be worth setting up a web site where we can all take
>>>>>> responsibility to transcribe certain areas of the census returns and
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> BMI information, taking the central towns and villages in Devon to
>>>>>> start
>>>>>> with where the STEER name derives from, them branching out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do realise that it will not be a few weeks work but a few years to
>>>>>> get the site usable, but then all this information that is being
>>>>>> contribute about the STEER name via e mails could be used buy us all
>>>>>> as and when we need it in a format that is searchable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What do you think?>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My view is that the answer is probably, as we are on this list
>>>>>> because
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> have a particular interest in our own STEER family. If we choose to
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> more generic transcriptions then that is outside the scope of this
>>>>>> list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But however desirable such a project may be I don't think that it is
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> workable option.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Peter wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <To meld all this disparate data into anything approaching universal
>>>>>> comprehension is nigh on impossible.>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree, it would be akin to the League of Nations all over again, a
>>>>>> good
>>>>>> idea, but it did not achieve any of the high ideals that were set at
>>>>>> its
>>>>>> inception.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>>Jack Steer
>>>>>>Banbury
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> an email to with the word 'unsubscribe'
>>>>>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>> Checked by AVG.
>>>>> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1386 - Release Date:
>>>>> 18/04/2008 17:24
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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