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Archiver > STITH > 2003-10 > 1067267136

From: Randy Jones <>
Subject: Re: [STITH] Cocke family connection to English nobility
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:05:36 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <07c701c39c77$9d6eee40$3bcd2b42@userf27tnph17s>

The Aston connection is controversial, so if you include it in your genealogy, you should note so. Below are two opposing viewpoints on the issue from two well-known medieval genealogists. Accordingly, until their is a consensus among genealogists more knowledgeable than I, I have decided not to include the linkage. Any comment back is appreciated:

"Lt-Col Walter Aston, emigrant to Virginia, has been provided with an English origin and a Royal descent. Recent research (see Paul C. Reed in The American Genealogist, Vol. 76, no. 3 [July 2001], pp. 234-236) indicates that the claimed origin of Lt.-Col. Aston is incorrect. As a result, the Royal descent previously has been removed." -- William Adams Reitweiser

"The late Dr. David Faris did not support Paul Reed's contention that the Virginia immigrant is from a different family than previously alleged. Dr. Faris further believed that Mr. Reed's case was weakened by his failure to find a death record for the supposed other Walter Aston prior to the brother's death. Also, Mr. Reed found no other suitable Walter Aston to match the likely family background of the immigrant than the man he alleges died before the immigrant.For these several reasons, Dr. Faris felt it best to leave Walter Aston in the Plantagenet and Magna Carta books and so he remains today. It's not that Mr. Reed hasn't proved his case. This matter simply needs more study before it can be concluded that the Virginia immigrant belongs in another place in the Aston family tree. If Mr. Reed is correct, I'm sure he will locate a death record of the second Walter Aston or find an alternative set of parents for the immigrant which matches the immigrant's socio-economic clas!
s." --
Douglas Richardson (edited), GEN-MEDIEVAL, 24 Apr 2002

Regarding the lineage below, it shows Isabel le Bigod as the daughter of Ralph le Bigod, but this is chronologically impossible. This is based on the "Chronicle of Tintern Monistary", vol. V, p.270, but the chronicle is defective. She is instead the daughter of Hugh le Bigod (b.c.1186 d.1224) and Maud Marshall.

If instead you would want a royal connection instead of a mere noble one, there are a number of different avenues beginning with Roger de Clifford and Maud de Beauchamp. All four of their parents and 7 of 8 of their grandparents have royal descent. An example of one:

Roger de Clifford (1333-89), son of:

Robert de Clifford (1305-44) and Isabel de Berkeley, son of:

Robert de Clifford (c.1274-1314) and Maud de Clare, son of:

Roger II de Clifford (c.1221-82) and Isabella de Vipont, dau of:

Robert de Vipont (c.1239-64) and Isabella fitzJohn, son of

John de Vipont (1210-41) and Sibyl de Ferrers, dau of:

William II de Ferrers (c.1162-1247) and Agnes [Alice] de Meschine, dau of

Hugh le Kevlioc de Meschine (1147-1181) and Berta de Montfort, son of

Ranulph [Raph] II de Gernons de Meschine (d.1153) and Maud fitzRobert de Caen:

Robert le Consul de Mellent (d.1147) m. Mabel FitzHammond, son of

Henry I, King of England (1068-1135)

Keith/Connie Street <> wrote:
Hi all,

While on the subject of possible royal ancestry, I will post the Cocke connection to English nobility. I have seen this several places, but cannot vouch for its accuracy or documentation. I present it as is, with the purpose of eliciting comments from others who have also run into this, like David Hupp, I believe. I will copy what I have down to the 26th generation, which is that of Lucy Hall and Richard Stith. If you descend from Lucy and Richard, you may decide whether to include the 25 generations named in your ancestral line. If you wish to add to it, many of the people named are to be found in genealogies of the royal families of Europe (including Russia), and can be followed back on many other lines. Again I post this for general interest, and not for name dropping. I think you can establish a Charlemagne connection, for example.

1. Roger Bigod, Earl of Norfolk and Suffolk, Father married Lucy, daughter of Henry of Essex.
2. Hugh Bigod, heir to Norfolk, married Juliana, sister of Alberie di Fere, Earl of Oxford.
3. Sir Ralph Bigod
4. Isabel de Bigod married Gilbert de Lacy.
5. Maude de Lacy married Peter de Geneva
6. Geoffrey de Geneville
7. Peter de Geneville, Lieut. of Ireland and Wales.
8. Joan de Geneville, married Roger de Mortimer, 1st Earl of March, son of Margaret de Fendles and son of Lord of Wigmore.
9. Catherine de Mortimer married Thomas Beauchamp, Earl of Warwick.
10. Maud de Beauchamp married Roger Clifford, 9th Lord, 1333-1389.
11. Phillipa de Clifford married William Ferrers.
12. Margaret de Ferrers married Richard de Gray, Admiral of the King's Fleet.
13. Alice de Gray married Wm. Burley, Speaker, House of Commons.
14. Joan Burley married Judge Thomas Westcott Littleton, son of Thomas Westcott and Elizabeth Littleton, Lord of Manor of Frankley who had married the daughter of Sir William Berkeley.
15. Sir William Littleton
16. Joan Littleton married Sir John Aston.
17. Sir Edward Aston
18. Leonard Aston
19. Walter Aston
20. Lt. Col. Walter Aston, America.
21. Mary Aston married Lt. Colonel Richard Cocke.
22. Richard Cocke, Jr. married Elizabeth.
23. Richard Cocke III married Ann Bowler.
24. Ann Cock married Robert Bolling, Jr.
25. Anne Bolling married John Hall.
26. Lucy Hall married Richard Stith.

Is this new to anyone?
Keith/ Street
"Let us recollect it was liberty, the hope of
liberty, for themselves and us and ours,
which conquered all discouragements,
dangers, and trials."
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