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Archiver > SWITZERLAND > 2000-02 > 0949734776


From: "Mike Hobart" <>
Subject: Re: [SWITZ] Swiss-English / English-Swiss software or dictionary
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 00:12:56 -0700


Sorry Dave,

but the work your mention is NOT the work I was referring to. The work he
mentions is one you see when you check the online catalog but it is
different. The one Dave mentions is for Romansch<>German and was published
in 1962. The one I was thinking of is Swiss-German<>standard German and was
published circa 1875 or so.

A brief check of the online catalog did not show the listing, so my first
guess is that it is cataloged under the German locality of publication. I
know where it's located on the shelves of the library, but it will take a
bit of digging to find it in the catalog.

Regards, Mike Hobart

----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Cc: <>
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 11:30 PM
Subject: RE: [SWITZ] Swiss-English / English-Swiss software or dictionary


Dear Swiss researchers:

The dictionary to which Mike refers is called:
" Dicziunari rumantsch ladin-tudais-ch "
by Peer, Oscar (Main Author)

It has NOT been microfilmed.

You may view the on-line FHL Catalog description by searching on the
webpage:
http://www.familysearch.org/fhlc/supermainframeset.asp
Click on "All Searches"
Click on "Author Searches"
enter peer
Click on Peer, Oscar
then click on the title:
Dicziunari rumantsch ladin-tudais-ch

For more information on dictionaries from Switzerland, please visit the
following weblink (between http and 375990 must all be included in your
webbrowser):
http://www.familysearch.org/fhlc/supermainframeset.asp?display=topicdetails&;
subject=375990
(if nothing seems to load on the webpage, hit your refresh/reload
button.....it took me several tries to get the page to display)

The following books were listed (not sure if they have been microfilmed or
not - you'll need to check each individually):
1) Aargauer Wörterbuch in der Lautform der Leerauer Mundart Hunziker, J
2) Berndeutsches Wörterbuch : für die heutige Mundart zwischen Burgdorf,
Lyss und Thun Greyerz, Otto von, 1863-1940
3) Dicziunari rumantsch ladin-tudais-ch Peer, Oscar
4) Glossaire du patois de la Suisse romande : avec un appendice comprenant
une série de traductions de la parabole de l'enfant prodigue, quelques
morceaux patois en vers et en prose et une collection de proverbes Bridel
5) Schweizerische Idiotikon : mit etymologischen Bemerkungen untermischt,
samt einem Anhange der verkürzten Taufnamen Stalder, Franz Joseph
6) Zürichdeutsches Wörterbuch für Schule und Haus Weber, Albert

Information about Ernest Thode's Genealogical German Dictionary, mentioned
by Wolf S. below, (publ. 1992, NOT microfilmed) can be found at:
http://www.familysearch.org/fhlc/supermainframeset.asp?display=titledetails&;
titleno=47299
(remember, all on one line between http and 47299)

Other books by Mr. Thode can be researched by going to:
http://www.familysearch.org/fhlc/supermainframeset.asp?display=authordetails
&authorno=19166
(again, all on one line between htp and 19166)

best wishes in your continued Swiss research,
Dave Schmutz

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Hobart [mailto:]
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 10:50 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [SWITZ] Swiss-English / English-Swiss software or
dictionary


The LDS Family History Library has a dialect dictionary between the Davos
(Graubünden) Swiss-German dialect and standard German that was published
about 1875 or so. I'm pretty sure that it is available on microfilm but
don't have the film number available. I am also aware of at least a couple
other such dictionaries for other areas in Graubünden in the LDS library
collection.

One thing which really broke me up when I first saw this work was that the
German term for a dialect dictionary was "Idiotikon". The term tells worlds
about German language professors and the speakers of dialects <g>.

Regards, Mike Hobart

----- Original Message -----
From: Seelentag Wolfhart Dr. KSSG_RO <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 9:47 AM
Subject: AW: [SWITZ] Swiss-English / English-Swiss software or dictionary


> > Von: C. J. Lisa[SMTP:]
> > Gesendet: Freitag, 4. Februar 2000 16:38
> > An:
> > Betreff: [SWITZ] Swiss-English /English-Swiss software or dictionary
> >
> > Hi all....
> >
> > Does any one know of a source for a Swiss-English dictionary or
software. German does not provide a complete translation and I would like to
learn Swiss. I know a little to get by but not enough to be coherent.
> >
> > Thanks for your help.
> >
> Dear Claire,
>
> this question comes up occasionally - and I'm not sure whether there ever
was a full answer.
>
> I don't know of a serious SwissGerman-English dictionary (I have seen one
as souvenir - but that's more of a joke and will be of no use for genealogy)
:
> it's not the words themselfes which make todays Swiss-German difficult to
understand - it's the pronounciation (dialect). When reading a newspaper,
I'll still be able to tell you after a few minutes whether it is Swiss or
German - but this will largely be due to the syntax used; there are only
very few words used (in "normal" texts) in Switzerland, which you wouldn't
find in a good German dictionary. The problem are the terms (like
professions, political positions, and the like) found in the older documents
we genealogists often try to read - most Swiss today (unless interested in
history or genealogy) will not be able to tell you their meaning either,
let alone translate them into any other language. This is the same for
Germany:
> for such terms the best "general" dictionary will not help you - you need
a "genealogical dictionary"; there is a good one I know of - by Ernest Thode
- check
http://www2.genealogy.net/gene/misc/dictgen.html
for more detail plus other related references. The problem with
genealogical (or historical) dictionaries is that there was no "Germany"
during most of the time of interest to genealogists (let alone an area
including Switzerland) - consequently quite different words were used for
the same thing - or the same word might have had quite different meanings in
different regions! So if you *really* want to understand, the only way is to
search for a book describing these old expressions (in German, don't think
you'll find one in English) for your region of research - and then translate
this description (using a good general dictionary) to English.
>
> Ernest Thode may want to add something to this comment (?).
>
> If anyone out there really wants to get into this, and compile relevant
information of this type for Switzerland - you'd be more than welcome to
join our SwissGen Team ;-).
>
> Best regards - Wol

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