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Archiver > Scotch-Irish > 1998-02 > 0886550227

From: "Steven Oge" <>
Subject: Re: Fight Nice
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:57:07 -0500

Agreed now let it go

> From: John Giacoletti <>
> To: Scotch-Irish <>
> Subject: Fight Nice
> Date: Monday, February 02, 1998 10:29 PM
> In Edinburgh, Scotland, in 1950, there appeared a publication entitled
> I made clear that I was quoting from this text when I wrote:
> >>>>Some notes of cultural and historical interest:
> >>>>Fm. "Highland and Traditional Scottish Dances:"
> One of the list participants seems to take issue with the content of one
> two of the sentences that were directly quoted:
> "As is generally known, the Calvinists were making their influence felt
> Mary Queen of Scots' Court and throughout the country, denouncing dancing
> and music as sinful."
> The participant then confuses the message with the messanger by writing:
> "Unfortunately it is because of inaccurate statements like those of
> John that people have got a completely wrong idea of the early
> Reformation in Scotland...."
> >From this mixup in the overall point of view in which the content of the
> post has been inaccurately attributed to me and not to the source that
> cited, the critic then argues:
> "It is not "generally known that "the Calvinists were .... denouncing
> dancing and music as sinful"."
> It is one of the repeated statements often made by those whose
> knowledge of the subject is virtually nil."
> Oooh! The insulting verbal thrust. And aaah! the resultant exposure is
> followed by a counter attack, the key to martial arts being "he who
> first loses."
> Just to check on what is "generally known," I checked out the Encarta
> Encylopedia article on "The Reformation," as a representative sample of
> general knowledge. The Encarta article states:
> "To enforce discipline of morals, Calvin instituted a rigid inspection of
> household conduct and organized a consistory, composed of pastors and lay
> persons, with wide powers of compulsion over the community. The dress
> personal behavior of citizens were prescribed to the minutest detail;
> dancing, card playing, dicing, and other recreations were forbidden."
> I believe that many of those on the list will agree with the above
> statement as being a most significant aspect of their inherited culture.
> Our critic then uses the rhetorical trick of stating that he has found no
> evidence:
> " No where have I been able to find any documentary evidence that
> per se, was
> objected to during the time of what we will call Knox's reformation."
> Well, I have found such documentary evidence. On August 19th, 1574,
> Cadye was brought before the Presbytery of Edinburgh for dancing ...."
> doubt one could find many other charges, in these and other times,
> various people.
> How soon is soon enough to have had an influence on our ancestor's lives?

> The participant states:
> "The earliest enactment of the General Assembly against dancing, which
> I can find, was in July 1649, against "Promiscuous Dancing"."
> I think that's proof enought to support the general point of view that my
> source stated regarding the opinion of Calvanists toward dancing!
> John Giacoletti

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