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Archiver > Scotch-Irish > 1998-02 > 0887383588


From: linda Merle <>
Subject: Re: Savage - Fermanagh
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 07:26:28 -0800


Hi Gaye,

> Descendants in Australia claim they
> referred to themselves as Scotch-Irish.
> How would I go about determining whether this is true and, hence, when and
> where they came from in Scotland?

The really correct answer is you'd trace them backwards to where
they came from Scotland. This isn't terribly easy -- or even possible.
You can make assumptions if they are Presbyterians and seemed (or
you seem) culturally Ulster Scots.

Surname origin is no proof, but for what it is worth, Savage is
Norman in origin. The name is common in Down, according to Bell
"The Book of Ulster Surnames", from old French salvage --from
Latin silvaticus "wild". The orign is Le Secur Thomas le
Sauvagewho came to England with William the C and settled in
Derbyshire. His son William le Savage, b c 1150, took part in
the Anglo Norman invasion of Ireland, coming in 1177 to Ulster
with John de Courcy. He was granted land in Upper Ards in Co
Down and built "a stronghold" at Ardkeen and became an Ulster
baron. His descendents held their land for 300 years against the
Gaelic septs but became 'hibernicised". In the Annals of the
Four Masers they recorded as Mac an tSabhaisigh. Sir Roland
Janico Savage, Lord of Lecale, was in 1482 seneschal of Ulser. He
was described by the Lord Deputy of Ireland as "the most famous
of the English of the province for his exploits against the
Irish.", but he revolted in 1515. By the end of the 16th century
the lord of the family was listed as an important Ulster rebel.

The next generation Henry Savage married into the Montgomery
family. Though the 1641 rebeling left Ards untouched, it is
beleived this marriage saved the family from disposession. They
were STILL HOLDING the land granted to William 800 years before.
It's not clear from the book if they rebelled or if the saving
was from the Irish, who went for the English first (saving the
Scots for "last").

A group of Savages in Portaferry became Nugents in 1814 when
an Andrew Savage, 1770-1846, high sheriff of Down, adopted the name
because he inherited a fortune from his great uncle Governor
John Nugent of Westmeath.

Thanks for asking -- I learned all this history. Now the list
has only has a couple questions of you: Are you rich too? And
if so, can we all come and stay free at your mansion??

Seriously, I suspect if you can tie your family into this one,
you will trace your family farther than most of us. I'd check
LDS catelog for published genealogies.

Lisvoy must be a town....anyone know?

Linda Merle

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