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Subject: [S-I] Fwd: Gypsies in Scotland, England, and Colonial America
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 19:53:53 +0000 (UTC)
In-Reply-To: <409937989.1381042.1307129632802.JavaMail.root@sz0165a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>


Hi folks, I'm forwarding an email posted by Donald Locke to the genealogy-dna list. It discusses Gypsies in our homeland (with an aside or so to Irish Travelers) and, most importantly, notes their unique DNA signature and very common surnames. It is possible that the DNA may provide a breakthrough for a few of us here. Surnames like Campbell, Shaw, Riley, and Hicks could be Romany in origin. He has proof of Romany DNA in Virginia in the early 1700s. Check the URL to the article. It covers the ugly history of indentured servitude between Scotland and the New World. For some odd reason none of us 'know' we descend from indentured servants and criminals transported to America -- though undoubtedly some of us DO.

As the Gypsies were brought to areas that became ethnicly 'Scotch Irish" I bet some of us have Romany and traveler ancestors as well.

In any case, it's interesting. If your Ychromo is H1A with a special null .... contact Donald.

Linda Merle

Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 08:41:44 +0000 (UTC)
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Subject: [DNA] Romany DNA
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I did a quick search of the archives and see that the Romany "Gypsy" DNA topic has come up multiple times over the years.
I am Donald Locke, Admin. of the Romany DNA project and Y Haplo Group H project.
And just so you know who I am, I am Romany "Gypsy" of the Romanichal vista "clan" of England and Scotland.
I am one of the first participants with FTDNA to be found carrying Y Haplo Group H1a, but more importantly a very specific null value marker mutation was found at the 67 marker level, marker 425 = null 0.

Through my genealogy and genetic genealogy studies over the last 6 years, I have proven something that I think will shock some people. The Romanichal clan genetics of England and Scotland were very poorly studied over the last 11 years , the "Gypsy" studies tended to focus a lot on Eastern European Roma clans, and pretty much ignored the British and Scottish Romanichal clan.
I am a genealogist first and foremost and through my genealogical paper trail research, there was very clear evidence of whom the Romanichal's call of the "old" clan, the original Romany immigrants to Scotland and England .

When you study the genealogical paper trails, you find the same Romanies traveling together, marrying one another over and over again for a great many generations. I have focused the genetic side of the research specifically on the "old" Romanichal family surnames.
Lock(e), Smith, Lee, Boswell, Ingram, Bailey, Campbell, Burton, Stanley are Romanichals of England, Scotland and some of their descendants in the USA. All were found carrying Y Haplo Group H1a with the 425 = 0 marker mutation.
The null value marker mutation so far has not been found in any H1a Asian male population, it appears to only be found among the Roma clans of Europe.

I read an old post to this list that someone was questioning if the Romany people were a part of the American Colonies? YES!
Why historians have ignored this piece of American history is beyond me. They can't claim ignorance on this one because it wasn't like this history wasn't recorded, it was! If the historians had only looked at the paper trail facts, they would have seen many Romanichals had been forcefully transported to the American Colonies as early as the 1670's on through the early 1700's.

Virginia specifically was mentioned in multiple Romany convict records, they were shipped to work the Virginia plantations according to the convict records. Maryland and South Carolina were also some times mentioned in the Romany convict records, but it was Virginia that seemed to be the primary dumping grounds for Romany convicts.
William Baillie / Bailey of Scotland, a Romany Gypsy of the Romanichal clan, was one of the first of the Romanies forcefully transported to Virginia.

This web link talks a little about William Baillie / Bailey
http://www.history.org/Foundation/journal/Spring05/scots.cfm

The Scotland Archives web site also mentions this piece of Romany history if anyone cares to check it out.

But William Bailey was not alone, there was an unknown number of Romanies forcefully transported to the American Colonies, as well as transported to Barbados and Jamaica.

Here is but one example of Scottish Romanichals being transported to Virginia.

FAA, Mary
Gypsy. Prisoner in Jedburgh Tolbooth. Banished at Jedburgh, 30 November 1714. Transported via Glasgow on a Greenock ship, master James Watson, by merchants Robert Buntine of Airdoch, James Lees and Charles Crawford to Virginia, 1 January 1715.

FAA, Peter
Gypsy. Prisoner in Jedburgh Tolbooth. Banished at Jedburgh, 30 November 1714. Transported via Glasgow on a Greenock ship, master James Watson, by merchants Robert Buntine of Airdoch, James Lees and Charles Crawford to Virginia, 1 January 1715.

Take note of the date, 1715 and the place, Virginia! Our historians have very clearly failed to tell us the whole story, that among some of the early Colonials, were Romanichal "Gypsies" who were forcefully transported as convicts.
There are two distinct Bailey lineages in the USA, the William Bailey lineage of Virginia and the Stephen Bailey lineage of South Carolina, both lineages carrying Y Haplo H1a with the 425 = 0 marker mutation.

Lock is first found in Calvert County Maryland 1728 and migrated to old Frederick County Virginia by the 1750's but before 1755. Lock is also in H1a with the 425 = 0 marker mutation.

Ingram are first found in Pittysylvania County Virginia 1770's-1790's era, and are another H1a male lineage with the 425 = 0 marker mutation.

Campbell is first found in Arkansas 1800, another H1a male lineage with the 425 = 0 marker mutation
Bailey and Campbell are of the Scottish Romanichal clan, both are mentioned in some of the Scottish Romany "Gypsy" books published back in the 1800's.

Hite of Virginia, is we believe a case of an adoption, but he too is an H1a male lineage with the 425 = 0 marker mutation

Romanichals of England whom have DNA tested. Lock(e), Smith, Lee, Burton, Boswell, are also H1a Romanies with the 425 = 0 marker mutation. Lee has only tested 12 markers, unknown if Lee carries the marker mutation or not.

Stanley is a descendant of the 1850 - 1900's England to the USA Romany migration, he too is in H1a.
He has only tested 12 markers, unknown if he carries the 425 = 0 marker mutation.

Lock of Maryland to Virginia is a 65/67 match to the Lock of England, both H1a male lineages both carrying 425 = 0.
Interestingly Burton of England is a perfect 67/67 match to the Locke of England, both are Romanichals.

Vasko of Hungary to the USA is also another H1a with the 425 = 0 marker mutation, which very highly suggests Vasko is directly related to the Romanichals of England and Scotland. Vasko is a known Hungarian Roma family surname.
So there isn't any question "if" there were Romany "Gypsies" in the American Colonies, the new question is exactly how many Romanies were there in the American Colonies?
I have very clearly proven there were Romanies in the American Colonies, but those are just the one's I have been able to identify from the paper records and DNA tests. There must be many more that goes unaccounted for!

Some of you maybe shocked by those Romanichal family surnames of England and Scotland, because they are very common surnames that are also found in the American Colonies.

Romanichal surnames of Scotland:
Stewart
Gordon
Douglas
Graham
Ruthven / Rutherford
Hamilton
Drummond
Kennedy
Cunningham
Montgomery
Kerr
Campbell ( H1a )
Maxwell
Johnstone
Ogilvie
McDonald
Robertson
Grant
Bailey / Baillie ( H1a )
Shaw
Burnet
Brown
Keith
Blythe
Faa, also some times spelled Fall, Faw
Young

Book link to the Scottish Gypsies book.
http://www.archive.org/stream/scottishgypsiesu00macr#page/n5/mode/2up

England Romanichal family surnames:
Lock(e) ( H1a )
Boswell ( H1a )
Boss
Burton ( H1a )
Smith ( H1a )
Lovell ( R1b1b2* )
Loveridge
Lee ( H1a )
Burch / Birch
Broadway
Scamp
Bryer
Cooper ( J2 )
Stanley ( H1a )
Jones ( R1b1b2* )
Buckley / Buckland
Reynold's
Shaw
Eastwood
Harrison
Joles
Troleman
Whorton and similar spellings
Butler
Taylor
Palmer
Coleman
Rigley
Ripley
Riley ( appears to be Irish Traveller / Romany mix )
Williams
Evans
Chapman
Jeffrey / Jeffries / Jeff
Welsh
Wells
Woods
Young
Small
Hicks
Ayres and similar spellings
Green
Holmes
to name a few.

Link to the 1850-1900's British Romanichal migration USA census records
http://home.comcast.net/~lockeroots/GypsyCensusRecords.html


Link to the Romany DNA project
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Romnchel/default.aspx

Link to the Y Haplo H project
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/YHaploGroupH/default.aspx

To date, of those H1a carrying the 425 = 0 marker mutation, 100% of those are proven Romany male lineages of England, Scotland, USA, Hungary.

It is also interesting to note, Y Haplo H1 seems to be fairly rare! Haplo H and H1a are most commonly found but H1 so far is very rare. Only 5 H1 men have been clearly identified so far.

And as has been discussed in a previous post, the female Haplo Group M5a1 is being found in most of the Roma female populations, and one female Romanichal of England has been found carrying M5a1 for my Romany project.

I now very highly suspect we will find more Romanichals of England and Scotland with direct ties to Virginia, Maryland, South Carolina, and likely North Carolina and Pennsylvania as well.

Donald Locke


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