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Archiver > TMG > 2000-11 > 0973130698


From: "Andrew Clark" <>
Subject: RE: [TMG] England places
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 13:04:58 +1100
In-Reply-To: <016c01c0443f$7d994900$6d0a063e@hstjw>


Oh Great!!!!!

Now I _am_ confused.

But thanks for the work. At least I know now I have to think about this
seriously.

Would Hugh care to give us the theory behind British Postal Codes. Blowed if I
can made head nor tale of them either. <GGG>

Andrew Clark

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hugh Wilding [mailto:]
> Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 7:08 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [TMG] England places
>
>
> I sure hate to see a lot of confused folks so here goes with "Wilding's
> Rough Guide to Correct County Usage" <g> Please read through carefully and
> completely before proceeding!
>
> _Ireland (including Northern Ireland)_
>
> A picture is worth a thousand words so here is one of Ireland with all the
> counties listed <http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/irl/codes.html>;. The correct
> use for ALL these names is "Co, <Name>" e.g. Co. Down, Co. Wicklow. It is
> applied irrespective of whether the counties are in Northern or Southern
> (i.e. Eire) Ireland. Before the latter's independence, two counties in the
> south departed from this practice. They were King's County and Queen's
> County. I expect that Irish researchers shorten these to King's Co. and
> Queen's Co. Both counties were renamed after 1922.
>
> _Great Britain_
>
> Again, a map and list is found at
> <http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/Britain.html>;. Only ONE county has "County"
> in its descriptor - viz. Co. Durham. All the other names stand alone and
> do not need "County" or "Co." adding to them - the rules governing the
> formal style of "County of <Name>" are obtuse and arcane. As this formal
> style is not in everyday use over here (and never has been), my best advice
> to North American readers is AVOID the use of _County_ with English, Welsh
> and Scottish county names. After all, if we don't use it, why should you?
>
> Abbreviations
>
> Do we really use these names in full when we're writing to Auntie Flo who
> lives in _Buckinghamshire_? No, we don't! There are a series of
> abbreviations in common use - Bucks, Notts, Worcs, Lancs etc. - that you may
> have come across and wondered about. Not all counties are abbreviated and
> not all shortenings are consistent - e.g. Shropshire can be reduced to
> _Shrop_, _Shrops_ or _Sal_. Some little time ago, a British family
> historian, I guess impressed by the resolution of 50 state names into 50
> 2-letter codes, dreamt up a 3-letter code for every British and Irish
> county. He put a lot of thought into these codes to make them as clear and
> unambiguous as possible. As his surname was "Chapman", today we call these
> codes _Chapman codes_ and they have been expanded to cover _every_
> administrative region, both before and after 1974 (a watershed year when
> counties were radically reorganised). A full list of these codes can be
> seen at <http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/Regions/Codes.html>;. I must stress
> that the use of these codes is ONLY within family history - do not write to
> Auntie Flo at BKM, the postie will not be amused. (And of course, when it
> comes to matters of style, the code must be replaced by the full name).
>
> The LDS also use a 3-letter code for British counties. Unfortunately, this
> code is of the LDS's own devising, is NOT consistent with Chapman and in
> places is ambiguous e.g. MID is the LDS abbreviation for Middlesex - fine if
> you have an Anglo-centric view of the world but a Scot may well argue that
> MID suits Midlothian better! The Chapman codes for these are MDX and MLN
> respectively with far less room for doubt.
>
> GENUKI
>
> The 2 maps are from the GENUKI site with which many will be familiar. If
> you are researching British and Irish ancestry and haven't yet explored
> what's on offer, then bookmark the home page now <http://www.genuki.org.uk/>;
> for later use.
>
> Bob's questions
>
> > As I understand it, shire is included in the county name if the
> > shire town has the same name:
> > York = Yorkshire;
>
> That's OK.
>
> > Dorchester = Dorsetshire;
>
> Dorset, yes. County of Dorset, yes. Dorsetshire, NO! (I blame Thomas
> Hardy <g>) {Wild guess] In the way that Dorchester is a corruption of Dor
> castrum (camp), Dorset is a corruption of Dor shire - therefore, Dorsetshire
> = Dor shire shire.
>
> > Exeter = Devon.
>
> Don't know how you get this one, Bob.
>
> > But why Winchester = Hampshire
>
> At some stage, Southanptonshire (and still, I think, County of Southampton).
>
> > and Canterbury = Essex
>
> Ouch! Canterbury is in Kent (but at least it is the same linguistic root).
> You're thinking of Chelmsford but of course, it's not Chelmsfordshire or
> County of Chelmsford. It's just Essex (the region of the East Saxons).
>
> > and Reading? = Berkshire?
>
> No rhyme, no reason, sorry - and then we go and pronounce it "Reding,
> Barkshire".
>
> Pip, pip!
>
> Hugh Wilding
> Berkshire, England
> <>
>
> REMEMBER THE ROUGH GUIDE - AKADAC
>
> ALL Irish counties = Co. <Name>
> EXCEPT King's/Queen's Counties
> AVOID the use of "County" with English, Welsh and Scottish counties
> EXCEPT Co. Durham.
> ALWAYS refer to a Chapman code list for the correct name.
>
>

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