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Archiver > TMG > 2001-09 > 1000860974


From: "Thomas Kryssbek" <>
Subject: Re: [TMG] Norwegian data entry
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 18:56:14 -0600


>If you go to the I.G.I. files and search for Nielsdtr., you will find >both
>Nielsen and Nielsdtr. are searched. Examine enough records and >you will
>find females with the masculine patronymic name recorded in >church
>records.

First, don't ever use the I.G.I. as a guide to what a person's name was,
because during different periods of the submission of the names to the
I.G.I., different "rules" were used which often had no relationship
whatsoever to how the name was actually recorded in any given record, much
less to the name used by that person during their life. Prior to the
computerization of the I.G.I., beginning in the late 1960s - early 1970s,
all patronymics were masculinized; later female forms of the patronymics
began to be used by some summiteers but not by all; then they said to submit
the name exactly the way they was recorded in the record; and then they
devised rules for substituting standardized and/or abbreviated forms of the
names for common variations of a surname or patronymic; therefore, you
ALWAYS must go to the original record used for the submission to be sure
what form the name was taking (that is generally the original church
record). In Norway and in Finland, where farm names are often used,
sometimes the extractors would include the farm name and some times they
would chop it off; again, you ALWAYS have to go to the original record to
see how the name was used.

One cannot determine any clear-cut rules to when people in Scandinavia began
to use surnames/family names instead of patronymics. You really must trace
each family member through their life to see what names or forms thereof
they used during their "whole" lifetime. One of the beauties of TMG is that
a researcher can record all variations as they are found.

As far as masculine forms of patronymics used by women, again it depends
where and when, but in general a women will use the feminine form well into
the late 1800s or even early 1900s; indeed, I understand, in Dalnara they
still may be used. This said, I've seen women use the masculine form in
Sweden in the late 1600s; however, this name was not really a patronymic but
had become a fixed surname used by the family. Generally this would only
happen in the upper classes. I've never seen this happen among the common
people this early in Sweden; however, in Denmark that is another story. In
Denmark one never knows! I've seen families using patronymics as surnames
early while others in the same village are just using patronymics. In fact
on the current border of Denmark and Germany (Schleswig-Holstein), I was
tracing one woman who I found used six different patronymic names/surnames:
her own patronymic, her father's patronymic, her grandfather's patronymic, a
name based on her husband's given name, his patronymic, and also an
occupational name her father and grandfather often used.

In summary, there really are no rules to the use of patronymics, just
generalizations. Let your research determine what names a person used and
just record them all.

When Bob Velke was in Salt Lake last summer, he did mention in his
presentation that they were working on the way TMG allowed you to record
names (i.e., they were trying to develop more flexibility). If I understood
him correctly, we will be able to actually identify a name as to what it is:
a patronymic, a fixed surname, a military name, a farm name, occupational
name, etc., etc. I'm looking forward to is possibility.

Tom Kryssbek

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