TMG-L ArchivesArchiver > TMG > 2010-02 > 1265521535
From: "Darrell A. Martin" <>
Subject: Re: [TMG] Bride and Groom Roles
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 23:45:35 -0600
Terry Reigel wrote:
> Teresa Elliott wrote:
>> Exactly. If you are just starting out, why choose PRINCIPAL and
>> WITNESS, when you can choose BRIDE AND GROOM which is what we all
>> recognize as the role the two people were in when they got married.
> Simply because you don't in fact have to choose them, while you do
> have to manually choose Bride and Groom. Why go to that trouble when
> it adds no value? I'm still looking for a reason.
> Terry Reigel
The only reason you don't have to choose Principal or Witness is because
they are the default. And saying Groom and Bride have no value is only
true of some people, and ignores the potential values that have been
mentioned; the relative clarity of the Person View, and certain types of
output in Second Site, among others.
I have to admit there *is* a good reason to stick with the default Roles
for the Marriage Tag Type, at least at first. That is because the
default implementation of Roles is so incomplete. It takes a fair amount
of work to make the Bride and Groom Roles useable, in my opinion,
although at least that work does not need to be repeated, once done. The
Bride and Groom Roles need to be made gender specific (which is a data
editing benefit, another value of using named Roles). And, the default
sentences need to be rewritten to use Roles-based sentence variables,
instead of the default sentences based on [P] and [PO] variables which
7.04 still inexplicably provides for the included Roles "Groom" and "Bride".
The default implementation of Roles in the Marriage Tag is still barely
tolerant of named Roles, even after those Roles are correctly set up
with appropriate genders, the sentences are written to use the Roles,
and the order of the Roles is changed in the Tag Type to put Groom and
Bride at the top. You cannot delete the Principal or Witness Roles from
the Tag Type, or hide or inactivate them. When you create a Marriage the
program still assigns the Principal Role to both partners. And, adding a
minor insult to a minor injury, if the groom is the person to whom a
spouse is added, the bride is put in P1 in the Marriage Tag -- most
people who have a preference prefer it the other way.
Maybe I *am* suggesting a change to TMG. Perhaps, just as there is a UK
edition, and there are other languages available, there could be a Named
Roles edition. We in the "Roles community" of TMG users could create a
base set of Tag Type definitions with appropriate sentences for the
provided Tag Types. But the key, which would require some programming by
Wholly Genes, would be the ability to delete (or inactivate, or hide)
the Principal and Witness Roles; at least, the ability to choose as an
option not have the program ever *default* to them. This would need to
be a Preference setting, I imagine. I have no idea of the effort
involved. I could pseudo-code the desired change of program behavior in
a few minutes, if asked.
I predict if such a Roles edition were created, and made the default for
a new installation, that the number of new users who would switch to the
Principal/Witness Roles setup would be minuscule. I further predict that
TMG's reputation for difficulty of use would be improved.
This wouldn't do me any good. I have a stable set of named Roles, with
working sentences, for every Tag Type. The Principal and Witness Roles
for every Tag Type use sentences like "DO NOT USE PRINCIPAL ROLE IN XYZ
TAGS" in case the program tries to slip one by me when I'm not looking,
which it attempts frequently (and occasionally, successfully). I am
unlikely to change any of this in any significant way. But if a project
such as I suggest were established, I would still be willing to help.