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Archiver > TMG > 2011-01 > 1295043489

From: Rick Van Dusen <>
Subject: Re: [TMG] Conclusions
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 14:18:09 -0800
References: <003901cbb409$003304c0$00990e40$@net>
In-Reply-To: <003901cbb409$003304c0$00990e40$@net>

As Lee and John have given instances of, there are specific cases that
discredit your claims.

I'll accept that you "know for a fact" your children's' births (I
certainly know mine), but *I* don't know for a fact that you know for a
fact or that if you told me them, you'd not made any typos,
misspeakings. I'd cite the info as "Teresa/their mother told me",
without adding any assertion of accuracy.

A personal-testimony "know for a fact": I remember very clearly my
father and my mother-in-law dying the same week. (My daughter, eleven at
the time, was home ill from school, and answered both calls--a bit
traumatic.) However, almost a decade later, early in my genealogy work,
I got my father's SSDI record, and found that the date of death I
"clearly remembered" was one day different from the SSDI. Guess what: I
really am not sure which is correct. (One of these days, I'll get other

Sorry; I'm not dissuaded from my "'know for a fact' phobia".

Teresa Elliott wrote:
> Rick, you see there is where we differ. LOL I know for a fact when my
> children were born (and can describe the day in great detail if you'd like
> to read it, I can send it off list later. <G>
> I know for a fact the name my parents have used for me since I was a small
> child (as an infant, they may have used a different name that I wouldn't
> remember, but my two aunts and uncle who my parents were helping my
> grandmother raise would have known for a fact the name that my parents
> called me, because they would have used it as well.
> As for my cousin. I know for a fact the name I have called him is the same
> name his older sister assured me he had had since birth. I showed her the
> incorrect birth certificate, and she said "well the doctor wrote it down
> wrong, because we never called him that." She is enough older than him,
> that I greatly trust her testimony (though she is now in her 80s) about what
> they called her baby brother.
> I do understand that memories can fade, they can be replaced with what we'd
> like to remember. But if a woman tells me her children's birthdates, I
> don't need to see birth certificates to believe that date is true. Now I
> think we do agree on one thing. If my cousin states her child was born on 11
> Jun 1963 and the child's birthday states 10 Jun 1963, I am going to record
> both dates. It's possible the child was born on the Tenth, and Momma was
> just aware of the birth on the Eleventh. (having been born close to
> midnight, I know my mother did not meet me until the next day. <G>)
> But there are a lot of facts I do know without a shadow of a doubt in my
> genealogy. The day my dad died. The day my brother died. The day my baby
> cousin had her first child. These were dates that were recorded in my family
> history and my mind indelibly. I am sure my cousins have dates just like
> that where they will never forget the day or the events of the day.
> Ask my daughter where she was on Sept 11, 2001 (hint she was preschool aged)
> and she can describe the day in great detail. Some dates are just that way.
> Rick wrote:
> 4. I don't "know" anything; I only have a collection of records and what
> they state. Only in degrees would I believe my cousin's testimony more
> (or less) than a document.*** And I'd record both the document and the
> cousin's testimony as sources to support my tag entry. Again, IMHO,
> "knowing for a fact" is "above my pay grade". I'm not going to take any
> blame for wrong information; "It's not my fault it's wrong; that's what
> it says in xxxx."
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