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From: "Edgar D. Byler, III" <>
Subject: [TNHARDIN] Re: [TNWAYNE] Re: TNWAYNE-D Digest V00 #148
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:00:02 -0500


David,

Yep, was aware of that act which attached that portion of Hardin to Wayne in
1850. Have you ever found anything about when the whole county line moved
east a mile or two? According to the old maps, the boundary between Wayne
and Hardin was originally a mile (poss. two) further west than the present
line. I've got an 1829 map (from TSLA) that shows a proposed change, but
have not found the act which actually authorized the change. I'm now
beginning to wonder if that wasn't done as the result of a Chancellry ruling
rather than act of the legislature (must similar to the invalidation of the
act of 1850 creating TaylorCounty. That ruling of unconstitutionality was
made by the Chancery Court upon a suit brought by Hardin and Wayne Counties
in 1852/3)

What has surprised me is that there are families listed in Wayne Co., TN in
1830, but are in Hardin County in 1840 and yet they don't appear to have
moved. I am particularly aware of this in the Indian Creek area and down on
Grassy. Would appreciate your thoughts on this.

Edgar

-----Original Message-----
From: David Cagle <>
To: Edgar D. Byler, III <>;
<>; <>
Date: 17 October, 2000 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: [TNWAYNE] Re: TNWAYNE-D Digest V00 #148


>Edgar,
>According to "Genealogical Research Maps of Hardin County Tennessee" by
>James H. Hanna, the act to attach a portion of the northeast corner of
>Hardin Co. to Wayne Co. passed Feb. 1, 1850.
>David
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Edgar D. Byler, III <>
>To: David Cagle <>; <>;
><>
>Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 10:43 AM
>Subject: Re: [TNWAYNE] Re: TNWAYNE-D Digest V00 #148
>
>
>> David, and anyone else interested:
>>
>> Doubt there was ever a time when Carrollville would have been in Hardin
>Co.
>> When the county line moved east one mile (have never been able to
>determine
>> theexact date although sometime in the 1840's?), it would have cut
>> Carrollville off and placed in Hardin Co. But I seem to remember that was
>> one reason that the area around Ninevah (Clifton) was cut off into Wayne.
>> I'm still trying to determine exactly what part of present day Decatur
>> County (across the river) was in Wayne and for how long. The acts
>> concerning the line changes aren't very specific and a couple are
actually
>> contradictory.
>>
>> Have no doubt that Clifton was established because that's where the
>Turnpike
>> met the River. It was my understanding that the Turnpike didn't terminate
>at
>> Carrollville because of the bottoms that had to be crossed. They flooded
>in
>> the winter and spring months, much as they do today. Thus a more westerly
>> route for the Turnpike was taken, terminating at Ninevah.
>>
>> Until looking at the 1913 Quad map of the Waynesboro Quad, I didn't
>realize
>> that Marion Furnace was actually two miles south from the river and very
>> close to the Turnpike, being just inside the Wayne County line. James B.
>> Walker was the principal in the Marion Furnace and Indian Forge
>operations,
>> although Royal B. Ferguson had been the owner in the 1830's and probably
>> built the original furnace.
>>
>> As far as I know there was no connection between the Walker's on Eagle
>Creek
>> and James B. Walker of Nashville who had married one of J. K. Polk's
>sisters
>> and was one of the partners in the Pillow, Polk and Walker syndicate.
>>
>> I've heard that story about the burning of Carrollville for years (at
>least
>> 40) and it may have some basis. Carrollville was still something of a
>puny
>> villege in the late 1850's, but had completely disappeared following the
>> Civil War. It must have been "burned" sometime in the 50's, but I have no
>> proof one way or the other, only the story. Without looking it up, I
can't
>> remember when the post office at Carrollville was discontinued, but
>believe
>> it was sometime in the 50's.
>>
>> I don't believe there was any actual "competition"between Clifton and
>> Carrollville. When the Turnpike was completed, there would have been
>little
>> traffic remaining for Carrollville. One of the principal warehouse owners
>in
>> Carrollville between 1820 and the 1840's were the brothers Hugh and James
>> Simpson of Florence. They were closely allied with James Jackson of the
>> Forks and thus a part of the alliance with the Polks, etc. through Andrew
>> Jackson. I've been told that these familiar alliances didn't occur, but
my
>> professors were certainly ignorant of much economic history as well as
the
>> way these close knit and interconnected families "helped" one another
out.
>> By the time Clifton was founded, the Simpsons had closed their warehouses
>in
>> Carrollville since there was no longer a need for them. Shallow draft
>> steamboats were, by the 1840's, plying the river as far as Florence and
>with
>> the completion of the canel in the 1830's, able to make it further up the
>> river. As I understand it, even in the driest weather, the steamboats
were
>> still able to make it upriver from Carrollville, Clifton to Florence.
Thus
>> there was little need for overland portage between Carrollville and
>> Florence. And too the railroad had been completed to Tuscumbia by 1853
>> making shipment much easier. The main reason Clifton prosperred was its
>> river access and good connection to Waynesboro, Mt. Pleasant and
Columbia.
>> With the coming of the railroad to Columbia and the completion of the
line
>> to Decatur, the need for the turnpike declined. It continued as a major
>> shipping route for the furnace on 48 (Mt. Jasper/ Wayne Furnace) and for
>> Marion Furnace, and for shipping out of the Waynesboro area, but declined
>> even further as the railroads came closer to the county. By the time the
>> railroad was finished to Ethridge in Lawrence Co. and Hohenwald in Perry,
>> the turnpike had been basically abandoned east of Wayne Furnace as a
major
>> shipping route.
>>
>> Edgar
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: David Cagle <>
>> To: Edgar D. Byler, III <>;
>> <>;
><>
>> Date: 16 October, 2000 10:08 PM
>> Subject: Re: [TNWAYNE] Re: TNWAYNE-D Digest V00 #148
>>
>>
>> >Edgar,
>> >We, Hardin Co., almost owned Carrollsville as well. but I will concede
>that
>> >we didn't. If you dig deep enough, I suspect that the partnership,
>> >corporation, whatever, of POLK, PILLOW & WALKER had something to do
with
>> >getting that small corner of Hardin Co. in Feb. of 1850. Might have
had
>> >something to do with the Tennessee River termination of the Columbia
>> Central
>> >Turnpike Road. I am sure they wanted it to stop on their land and
>> >politically it probably needed to be in Wayne Co.
>> >
>> >I have also heard that the Clifton Group burned Carrollsville to stifle
>> >competition. Is there any truth to that? What year did Carrollsville
>burn?
>> >Can you elaborate ?
>> >
>> >Tom,
>> >Have you had snow yet? We have had at least one morning with
>temperatures
>> >near freezing. Lost my tomato crop, okra's gone, but turnip greens are
>> >doing fine, short sleeve weather again. The weather man keeps promising
>> >rain which never comes. Perhaps tomorrow?
>> >
>> >I remember those cannon balls on the Baker land. Must have been 90
>> >pounders. They were so large that I didn't realize they were cannon
>balls.
>> >Whoever stole those had to do a little work. The new county line came
>very
>> >near that Cemetery, leaving it about 800 feet in Wayne Co.
>> >
>> >The Feb. 1850 Act stated that the new line left the Tennessee River at
>the
>> >mouth of Masses Creek . No such creek on the map I have, just a small
>> >branch with no name. The line then runs south along the top of some
>> ridges,
>> >eventually striking the road from Marion Furnace to Indian Creek,
>following
>> >this road (which runs down WALKER Hollow), crossing Hardin Creek to the
>> >dividing ridge between Hardin and Indian Creeks.; thence east with said
>> >ridge(WALKER Ridge on map) to the Wayne Co. Line.
>> >
>> >I note that this area runs south far enough to take in the "Old" Walker
>> >place on Eagle and Hardin Creeks. Is this a coincidence or is this one
>of
>> >the Walkers of the Polk, Pillow and Walker conglomerate?
>> >
>> >Edgar,
>> >Where was Marion Furnace that was mentioned in the Hardin to Wayne land
>> >transfer? There is a place called Furnace Landing very near were the
>> modern
>> >Hardin-Wayne line leaves the river?
>> >
>> >Questions, questions.
>> >
>> >David
>> >
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: Edgar D. Byler, III <>
>> >To: David Cagle <>; <>
>> >Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 3:07 PM
>> >Subject: Re: [TNWAYNE] Re: TNWAYNE-D Digest V00 #148
>> >
>> >
>> >> Aw, now, David, you know better than that! Tisk, tisk!
>> >>
>> >> Didn't have nothing to do with a port on the Tennessee River since
>Wayne
>> >> county had Carrollville which was already a major port doing a
thriving
>> >> business in dry weather since boats had difficulty getting upriver
from
>> >> there. Cheaper sometimes to portage wares from Carrollville to
Florence
>> >than
>> >> have to wait for higher water to get a boat "round the bend!". There
>> were
>> >> also the landings across the river which at the time was still Wayne
>> >County.
>> >> Didn't become part of Perry County until the area had done been cut
off
>> >into
>> >> Decatur County.
>> >>
>> >> I imagine it had a lot to do with taxes etc. more than anything else.
>> >Wayne
>> >> County probably had a lower tax rate than Hardin. May have been easier
>to
>> >> hook the politicians in Wayne County, too, since the Pillow, Walker,
>Polk
>> >> syndicate already had them in their back pocket, along with much of
the
>> >hot
>> >> wind on the hill in Nashville.
>> >>
>> >> But who knows what evil (read that greed) luked in the hearts and
minds
>> of
>> >> those syndicate members. They sure did pull the wool over the eyes of
>> the
>> >> state and managed to come out smelling like a rose instead of spending
>> >time
>> >> in the penitentiary for fraud, embezzlement and other crimes. But then
>> >since
>> >> they were responsible for writing and passing those laws governing
>> >> industrial and manufacturing bennies, they were, I'm sure, also well
>> >enough
>> >> prepared to avoid the dog catcher! Don't think we've progressed too
far
>> at
>> >> the beginning of the 21st century!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Tom, don't believe everything David says! He still won't concede that
>> >> everything east of the Tennessee River is STILL Wayne County<grin>.And
>> >that
>> >> includes Savannah!
>> >>
>> >> Edgar
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: David Cagle <>
>> >> To: <>
>> >> Date: 16 October, 2000 6:59 AM
>> >> Subject: Re: [TNWAYNE] Re: TNWAYNE-D Digest V00 #148
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >Tom,
>> >> >Some misguided soul gave that corner of Hardin Co. to Wayne Co. in
>1850,
>> >as
>> >> >the story goes, so Wayne Co. would have a port on the Tennessee
River.
>> >> >
>> >> >David
>> >> >
>> >> >----- Original Message -----
>> >> >From: <>
>> >> >To: <>
>> >> >Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 10:05 PM
>> >> >Subject: [TNWAYNE] Re: TNWAYNE-D Digest V00 #148
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> Edgar Byler, III and David Cagle,
>> >> >> You guys sure come up with the greatest bits of Wayne Co. and
>> >Hardin
>> >> >Co.
>> >> >> history. Keep up the excellent work, and David, you gotta keep on
>> >> throwing
>> >> >> stuff to Edgar so's he can expand on your findings more often. I
>> really
>> >> >like
>> >> >> the info about the Pillow-Polk-Walker deeds about Roach's Bluff,
>> >Ninevah,
>> >> >and
>> >> >> Clifton.
>> >> >> But those places are in Wayne County, how come the deed was
>> >recorded
>> >> >in
>> >> >> Hardin County?
>> >> >> Continue the diggin', guys!
>> >> >> Tom Evans
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>

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