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From: <>
Subject: Re: [TGF] Year and State as Appositives
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 22:04:59 -0500
References: <5EB75CF43D84441ABD8C3D4221C341F4@AmyComputer> <393ff0080807011702r67aa2ab3me909a82f0ab0de3d@mail.gmail.com> <596F8C4B09634DA78847C319B66F5650@AmyComputer><86EBAA1F-B80B-4618-868B-9376D36B7FA4@hobbits8.com>
In-Reply-To: <86EBAA1F-B80B-4618-868B-9376D36B7FA4@hobbits8.com>


Patti,

It seems to me that you're considering only part of the issue. EE at 2.64
discusses "Separation of Dates and Locales" from two standpoints--not just
appositives but also clarity. The text there specifically reads:

"Places and dates often include a string of elements that, for clarity, are
separated by commas. For example:

On April 16, 1746, at Culloden ...
Boise, Idaho, was settled in 1863 ...

"In each case, the element with the comma before and after it modifies the
one immediately preceding it. The year 1746 modifies April 16. Idaho
modifies Boise. In grammatical terms (the Appositive Rule), 1746 and Idaho
are appositives, and should be both preceded _and_ followed by commas. The
closing comma should not be overlooked any more than we would omit closing a
set of parentheses."


In comparing this to CMOS 5.29 and 6.31 (specifically "Robert Burns, the
poet, wrote many songs about women named Mary" vs. "the poet Robert Burns
wrote many songs about women named Mary"), you say:

>In my opinion the year is essential to the meaning of the rest of the
date, and as 5.29 states in the Robert Burns example, "precisely
identifying which poet", it precisely identifies which April 16 or
which Boise. Therefore it would seem that, if they are appositives,
then they are restrictive appositives which would NOT use commas.

The two examples from EE correspond to the first Robert Burns example in
CMOS. Yes, "1746" tells us which "April 16" and "Idaho" tells us which
"Boise." By the same token, when CMOS's first example states "Robert Burns,
the poet, . . . " CMOS is telling us *which* Robert Burns. Still, the
construction of that appositive requires a comma both before and after the
phrase "the poet."

I'm assuming that you've also studied CMOS's discussions for writing dates
and places, wherein you would also find discussions of why the comma goes
after the year as well as before the year in phrases such as "April 16,
1746, ..." and "Boise, Idaho, ...."

Elizabeth




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