TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-L Archives

Archiver > TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM > 2011-10 > 1317867736


From: "Linda M. Hunter" <>
Subject: Re: [TGF] Surname question for illegitimate children
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 22:22:16 -0400
References: <1777024812.5629471317843249010.JavaMail.root@mbs9.homesteadmail.com><1062814848.5629611317843304292.JavaMail.root@mbs9.homesteadmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <1062814848.5629611317843304292.JavaMail.root@mbs9.homesteadmail.com>


Thank you all for the recommendations. And thanks to Lisa for reminding me to be careful in my wording. It's too easy to get an almost clinical detachment from the specific language.

Back to George, I think I'll introduce him as George SULLIVAN and leave the explanation to the text. This client's paternal line is giving me plenty of practice with proof arguments. :-)

George's parents, by the way, didn't get married until 1906 - 37 years into their relationship.

Thanks,
Linda

-----Original Message-----
From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of Dee Dee King, Certified Genealogist
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 3:35 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [TGF] Surname question for illegitimate children

Funny, there is this same discussion concurrently on a probate attorney list-serve I subscribe to. One of the attorneys actually researched the "illegitimate" issue in case law. Terms he found throughout the years included the archaic "bastard," "illegitimate," "born out of wedlock," "children with no presumed father," etc.

My reports for legal cases would probably use terminology different from family history research, if I was still doing family history work. I'd really consider whether to _conclude_ someone was "illegitimate." Perhaps my wording would be more along the lines of "documentation was not found that identified the father" or "documentation was not found for a marriage." Many times the report simply states "the child/children of MizLady was/were..." with the note about the lack of documentation.

Maybe the attorneys on the list will chime in, but Black's 4th indicates that the term was used for "something contrary to law, ... usually applied to children born out of wedlock." I'm wondering, is there any state now where it is against the law to have children without being married? If not, then it almost seems "illegitimate" is an archaic term if the definition has not changed over the years.

best regards,
Dee



----- Original Message -----
From: "Connie Sheets" <>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2011 3:03:32 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [TGF] Surname question for illegitimate children

I'd like to thank Lisa for alerting me to the fact someone might consider the word "illegitimate" to be offensive. Although I don't think I'd be likely to use the word to describe a person, I find nothing offensive about the definition of the word when used in the context of Linda's post ("1. Not authorized by the law; not in accordance with accepted standards or rules, and 2.
(of a child) Born of parents not lawfully married to each other"). To me, there is a big difference between writing "Jane Doe was illegitimate," and referring globally to unnamed "illegitimate children."

In my other life, I worked with people with disabilities and their families. Notice I did not say I worked with disabled people. As another example, people use wheelchairs; they are not wheelchair-bound. While an argument can be made against "people first" language, the value is to focus upon the person and not an attribute of the individual that can have negative connotations.

In writing about someone whose parents were not married when the child was born, I would let the facts speak for themselves, or summarize with a statement like "no evidence can be found to suggest Jane's parents ever married."

However, if I needed to quote a document from a past era, I'd quote it exactly, not try to tidy it up for modern ears.


Connie Sheets
Arizona

--- On Wed, 10/5/11, <> wrote:


> Lisa -
>
> I appreciate your candor in and about the word "illegitimate." We have
> seen many wonderful discussions on word usage and the context in
> different time periods.
>
> What alternatives would you offer?
> Mary S.
> Texas
>
>
> ---- Lisa McKinney <>
> wrote:
> > I'm not responding to the surname question but just
> offering a gentle suggestion to consider the use of the term
> "illegitimate" regarding human beings in current writing.
> I realize it is a fact that the term was used, historically, and I am
> not saying that this word characterizes anyone's personal thinking
> about the phenomenon.
> >
> > We face this issue in many ways as genealogists as
> several outdated, possibly hurtful, terms cross the decades and try to
> insert themselves into our own writing.
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 7:15 AM, Linda M. Hunter
> > <>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello. I have a question on how to handle to the
> surnames of illegitimate
> > > children who later take on the father's name.
> > >



The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list.
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

--
Dee Dee King, Certified Genealogist (sm), Certificate 903 Contract Genealogist, US Navy Casualty POW/MIA Branch www.forensicgenealogyservices.com/NavyCasualty.html
www.facebook.com/forensicgenealogist
Telephone/fax 281-431-3525
PO Box 1085, Manvel TX 77578

Certified Genealogist (CG) is a service mark (sm) of the Board for Certification of Genealogists®, conferred to associates who consistently meet ethical and competency standards in accord with peer-reviewed evaluations every five years.

The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list.
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message


This thread: