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Archiver > UK-WORKHOUSE-HOSP > 2000-10 > 0970516328


From: "Martyn Twigg" <>
Subject: Re: [UK-W&H] Re: Fathers names on birth records
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 20:52:08 +0100
References: <39D71019.14312.144674D9@localhost> <005101c02ca7$13462aa0$82896fd4@buzz>


Hi Mary:

The discussion on certificates is interesting - I have a couple of instances
in the 1880s where a man reported two births in the normal way, noting the
mother.

Subsequently these children died. The death of one was reported by an aunt
(mother's sister) present at the death, under occupation was "daughter of
Joe bloggs" (not his real name!). Similarly the other death was reported by
a "half sister present at the death", and again under occupation was
"daughter of....".
There was no mention of the mother, even thought those reporting the deaths
were close to her.
Was this normal? Would appreciate your comments.

Thanks, Martyn


----- Original Message -----
From: "MaryH" <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 8:28 PM
Subject: [UK-W&H] Re: Fathers names on birth records


> Hi Rita and Sandie,
>
> Sorry my e-mail may have been a bit misleading. The workhouse records
rarely
> record the fathers name. They generally show that the mother (often in
> labour) was admitted to the workhouse and then that mother and baby were
> discharged some days later. The Workhouse records may show the mothers
next
> of kin and for a married woman that would normally be her husband. I am
also
> referring to English workhouse records, I have never researched Irish
> records so I do not know how they differ from English ones.
>
> Birth certificates on the other hand are different. The birth certificate
> will show whatever the informant told the registrar about the event and
this
> was not always
> the truth! :-)
>
> There was also a change in the registration law in 1874 which
> affected what may be shown on a birth certificate. Prior to 1874 a woman
> could give the details of the reputed father of the child and even if the
> parents
> were not married these details would be entered on the certificate by the
> registrar. After 1874
> the unmarried fathers details could only be entered if the father himself
> accompanied the mother and they jointly informed the registrar of the
birth.
>
> Where a couple were married then the fathers name will always be shown -
BUT
> beware I have 2 certificates which are open to question, in one case the
> couple were not actually married and in the
> other case, the child was born 10 months after the named father had died!!
> There was never any cross checking as to the truth of what the registrar
was
> being told.
>
> Of course we only have the mothers word as to who the father is anyway!!
> Sorry if I confused anyone, but hope the above has cleared things up. :-)
>
> Mary Hallett - West Sussex
> Visit my Website at www.fourbearsuk.homestead.com
> Researching -MILLS, HUMBLE, HICKS, HALLETT
> BARKAS - one name study
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rita Reynolds" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: 01 October 2000 17:21
> Subject: [UK-W&H] Glencullen Poorhouse 1847 Ireland
>
>
> > Hi!
> >
> > I was eavesdropping on your conversation with Val{above} I was
> > struck by what you said about the birth of her ancestor in a
> > workhouse. You said that if he was born there then his father's
> > name woud not be on the certificate. I wonder if you could tell me
> > what you make of the circumstances of my ggrandfathers birth in in
> > Kildare.His birth record states that he was born in a poorhouse. His
> > mother's frirst name is recorded as just Mary{ I presume it is her
> > name] but the father's full name is given. What do you make of
> > that?
> >
> > It struck me odd as I read it. What do you think?
> >
> > Rita
> > > I'm afraid you are out of luck on this one as no records have survived
> > > for the 19th Century for any of the various workhouses in Stepney. It
> > > is possible his birth was not registered as this was not compulsory
> > > until 1874 so in the early years a number of births were not recorded.
> > >
> > > If the workhouse records had survived, they would have confirmed how
> > > he came to be at the workhouse (i.e. born there, abandoned, taken in
> > > with mother etc). If his mother gave birth there, you would have found
> > > her name recorded but not the name of the father.
> > >
> > > A trawl through Parish registers in the area he was born MAY turn
> > > something up, but you may be looking for a long long time!
> > >
> > > Good luck
> > >
> > > Mary Hallett - West Sussex
> > > Visit my Website at www.fourbearsuk.homestead.com
> > > Researching -MILLS, HUMBLE, HICKS, HALLETT
> > > BARKAS - one name study
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Paul Henderson" <>
> > > To: <>
> > > Sent: 01 October 2000 09:54
> > > Subject: [UK-W&H] Stepney / Shoreditch Workhouses 1871
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I am new to this list, and was pointed in your direction after
> > > > posting
> > > the message below on the London List
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > " Looking for my Great Grandfather Edmund Salisbury b. 1863
> > > Stepney(1881 CD/ death certificate) and no birth certificate in all UK
> > > (professional researcher). Marriage certificate - father unknown. A
> > > carpenter, living in Shoreditch in 1881. It is believed he was brought
> > > up in a Workhouse (family). > > Does anyone know of the Workhouses
> > > in the area at the time? Has any of the 1871 census been indexed for
> > > the Workhouses? " > > His address in 1881 was Kingsland Rd. I
> > > believe there was a Workhouse there. > > Once I have found the
> > > Workhouse he was in, what kind of records should I be looking for to
> > > help identify his parents?, or at least mother, assuming he was not
> > > just left at the gates. > > Val Henderson > Cornwall, UK > e-mail
> > > >
> > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valhender/index.htm > My
> > > Children's Forefathers. > > > ==== UK-WORKHOUSE-HOSP Mailing List ====
> > > > To unsubscribe send only the word unsubscribe in the body of message
> > > to: > for mail mode, or >
> > > for digest mode. > >
> > > ============================== > Search over 64,000,000 records in the
> > > Social Security Death Index: > http://ssdi.rootsweb.com/ >
> > >
> > >
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> >
> > Rita Reynolds
> > Fort McMurray
> > Alberta
> > Canada
> >
> >
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