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Archiver > UKR-GENSEARCH > 2010-01 > 1263358542


From: Philip Semanchuk <>
Subject: Re: [UKR-GENSEARCH] Where is Fuerstenland?
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 23:55:42 -0500
References: <99474cef1001122001t3599a770ka0a20e63bfad98e7@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <99474cef1001122001t3599a770ka0a20e63bfad98e7@mail.gmail.com>


On Jan 12, 2010, at 11:01 PM, the cohens wrote:

Hi there,

> I have been working on a guide to free birth and baptism webpages, and
> found a page that says Fuerstenland is in Russia, and other
> references of it being in South Russia, but have also seen references
> to it being in the Ukraine.

All of which could have been true at one point or another.


> And if it is related to Fürstenland, I saw that seems to be
> Switzerland. Is there both a Fürstenland in Switzerland and one in
> the Ukraine?

There was a lot of Germanic settlement in Ukraine and Russia and to a
lesser extent Poland, especially when these places were part of the
Austro-Hungarian Empire. A lot of the places took names from the
mother land, so it wouldn't surprise me if the two Fürstenlands were
related. However the page below (which I guess you've seen) suggests
"This land was rented from the Grand Duke Michael Nikolaevitch, hence
the name Fürstenland," which doesn't make a bit of sense to me, but
that's what it says.

http://www.gameo.org/encyclopedia/encyclopedia/contents/furstenland

The page above continues to say that Fürstenland "was located south of
Chortitza in the Melitopol district, Taurida, volost Verkhne-
Rogatchik" which would fit your description.


> My weakness in geography is really showing, and I want to get this
> right. So, where is the area of Fuerstenland/Fürstenland now? Is
> Ukraine sometimes referred to as South Russia?

While some Russians with imperialistic ambitions and a tendency to
exaggerate may refer to Ukraine as South Russia, it's not a modern
designation and I wouldn't even hint at such a thing within earshot of
any Ukrainians. It'd be sort of like referring to Canada as "the
northern part of the USA". Worse, even, since the US doesn't have a
history having its armies run roughshod over Canada while the same
cannot be said for Russia's relationship with Ukraine.

Anyway, Wikipedia identifies this map of the Russian Empire as being
"before the First World War":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Russia_ethnic.JPG

There also this map showing Russia in 1866:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Imperio_Ruso.PNG

You can see there that Russia ruled all of the territory on the
northern shore of the Black Sea and most of what's modern-day Ukraine
west to the Dniester. Thus, the Fürstenland described at the gameo.org
link above would fit your description of being in Russia and South
Russia when it was founded in the late 1800s.

Ukraine formed a nation in the 1917 Russian Civil War and at that time
Fürstenland's territory became part of Ukraine and it remains so to
this day.

I don't know if this is the same Fürstenland that you're researching,
but it seems like a match: a Mennonite settlement originally in
(South) Russia that's now in Ukraine.

A lot of the Germanic people were booted out of Ukraine in 1939 as a
result of the Molotov-von Ribbentrop pact. Their villages were
sometimes repopulated by Ukrainians who had themselves been forcibly
relocated. If Fürstenland was a successful settlement with well-built
houses, etc. (and that tended to be true of the Germanic settlements),
it was probably taken over and some of the original houses might
remain standing today.

Hope this helps
Philip
















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