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Archiver > WARBRIDES > 2012-02 > 1329073476


From: Carole May <>
Subject: Re: [WARBRIDES] Question on Form UKM
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2012 11:04:36 -0800
References: <15652EEE-35FA-4256-A283-E43787729C0C@carolemay.com><4F2E9330.5080407@kenscott.com><77DF5D05-A45B-41DC-860C-ECE717B34506@carolemay.com><4F2EC88E.3060808@kenscott.com><FA71C9B4-590F-45A1-AC9B-D107E9CE5128@cornerplan.com><6A11FF52-6C7A-4F61-AAC4-E9385238C29D@carolemay.com><5167ACBB-2B67-43B8-A0B3-C8999450AEBC@cornerplan.com><27D214CE-C6FE-4D53-B8A9-FB383CD00785@carolemay.com><B0842C33-4A30-4C1F-A967-52107B7E8F60@cornerplan.com><31EE80F5-43D3-405F-B4E7-543F1A42991B@carolemay.com><0BD31C63-9BA4-447D-860E-32EC5700F5F8@carolemay.com><4674F4DA1F194159863009A533A05F50@robdekstop><9A8B27F6-BA01-4141-A74B-09EBEAA41CDC@carolemay.com><1F53F0F6-F2C9-42BA-A8FC-35ED8D9FF452@gmail.com><63F11F4B-6DF0-4CF7-9011-33609EA75FB3@carolemay.com><1B606333-20A1-4321-AE15-EE5FC573FE15@gmail.com><7EE18DC7-5D72-4ECE-8D7C-65B64D8439F1@carolemay.com><266CE8D9-27A0-4D0A-995D-92717A86ED2F@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <266CE8D9-27A0-4D0A-995D-92717A86ED2F@gmail.com>


You are allowed dual citizenship in the US if it's by birth, which right of decent is. You do not have to give up your US passport when you become a British citizen as the UK does not require you to renounce your former citizenship. Many people carry both US and UK passports.

I never lived in England. I wanted to go there when my Mum died as right now I'm the only one in the family on this side of the pond. But I was told that if my father had been British, I could have come. Since he was not, the answer was no. But when they changed the law last year, I can now apply for citizenship.

Carole


On Feb 12, 2012, at 9:19 AM, Lolly Ockerstrom wrote:

> Thanks, Carole.
>
> Just for clarification: it sounds that you wanted to move to England when your mum died, but were told you could not. Did you ever live there?
>
> I'm asking just because someone who has agreed to serve as a referee for my application (a Brit) has asked me about the right of abode thing, too! I'm wondering if the embassy is making a distinction between those who are citizens by descent and those who became citizens of countries that were part of the empire (for want of a better phrase), and did not have British mothers?
>
> Just trying to get all this straight, but I will continue to take great interest in what happens with your application! If you were told to apply, that certainly looks promising.
>
> And just a couple of other questions: I know many persons who have dual citizenships (American and other). Do you anticipate any difficulty with the American passport agency as a result of your application? I have no intentions of relinquishing my American passport, though some have questioned whether I would have to. I don't think that's the case. Thoughts on this?
>
> Thanks again,
> Lolly
>
>
> On Feb 11, 2012, at 3:09 PM, Carole May wrote:
>
>> Hi Lolly,
>>
>> I asked them the same thing and was told to apply. I also don't understand the difference. I just hope I'm not wasting $127. Maybe someone else could let us know what they went through if they filed this form.
>>
>> Carole
>>
>>
>> On Feb 11, 2012, at 11:16 AM, Lolly Ockerstrom wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, Carole:
>>>
>>> Just one question I wonder if you could help with:
>>>
>>> The instructions for registering as a British citizen by descent include 4 criteria, including #3 (having the right of abode), which seems a bit murky. The document states that "Many applicants using form UKM fail because the applicant meets requirement 2 but not requirement 3." Those who would have become a British overseas citizen (or a Brit. dependent territories citizen) in 1983 do not qualify. Do you (and does the embassy) see being British by descent and becoming a Brit. overseas citizen as different categories?? Not sure I'm quite getting whatever distinction they are making here. If I had been able to to become a British citizen by descent prior to 1983, would I not have had the right of abode?
>>>
>>> Lolly
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 8, 2012, at 5:06 PM, Carole May wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Lolly,
>>>>
>>>> I'm glad my posts are helping to get the word out. When I wanted to move to England after my Mum died, I was told no for the same reason you were...that my Britishness would have to come from my father. My aunt and uncle in England were furious as they wanted me to come over there since I'm the only one left on this side of the pond, and I was also a teacher and they had a very large shortage of teachers.
>>>>
>>>> You (and anyone else in this predicament) should check out this page: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishcitizenship/applying/applicationtypes/britishmother/
>>>>
>>>> It's for children born to an English mother prior to 1983. Your mother had to be a British citizen on the day you were born. You also need 2 references (they call them referees) who will sign the form attesting to your good character. Then you fill in the rest and send it with the required documentation to the Embassy in Washington, DC. The fee as of now is $127.
>>>>
>>>> Back in those days, if you were not a citizen of the US, you had to file alien registration papers every year at your local post office. I remember my parents doing that. They eventually became US citizens in 1962 when I was 11.
>>>>
>>>> The citizenship you get from form UKM is by right of descent, which means you can't pass it on to any children you might have who are born outside of the UK. But you will be able to get a British passport for yourself :-)
>>>>
>>>> Go for it and if you have any questions, you can shoot me an email. And please pass this information on to whomever you know who might be looking for it so that everyone knows they are entitled now :)
>>>>
>>>> Carole
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 8, 2012, at 2:54 PM, Lolly Ockerstrom wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Carole:
>>>>>
>>>>> I have followed your story as it has unfolded, so just want to say: bravo! Please continue to post updates.
>>>>>
>>>>> I tried (rather feebly) to obtain a British passport about ten years ago, but at that time just got the response about citizenship coming through the father, and not the mother. I'm curious about the cases you found that helped to change this. My mum came as a war bride to the states in 1946, and didn't get a US passport until 1953 (and then because she had forgotten to send in whatever papers were needed for immigration that year--and someone came knocking on her door! She ended up taking US citizenship just to avoid the stress.) But I've been looking again at the much improved British Embassy site, and may try again for a British passport--like you, I am British by descent (my sister, by contrast, was born in England, so she's not as troubled by all this as I am).
>>>>>
>>>>> At any rate: carry on!
>>>>>
>>>>> Lolly Ockerstrom
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 6, 2012, at 2:30 PM, Carole May wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Elizabeth,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Before I started all of this, I did some research and evidently there were two court cases which went in the favor of the person who wanted the dual citizenship. So basically, while the US doesn't really allow it, they just look the other way from what I read. And the UK does not require you to give up your allegiance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are also permitted dual citizenship in the US if you got it by birth, which is what I will be getting. If the law had been written the way it is today on the day I was born, I would have been given British citizenship. The law when I was born stated it had to be your father who was British. The UK changed the law to include your mother, so that's why I can register now. What I am doing now is not really "becoming" a British citizen, as I already am because my mother was a British citizen when I was born. I am just registering that citizenship.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In emailing with the British Embassy, they have said they will accept a copy of my mother's death certificate in lieu of her passport since she passed away in 1996.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Carole
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 6, 2012, at 12:16 PM, Elizabeth wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Carole:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Been reading your series of emails with interest. You may have hit an
>>>>>>> un-penetratable wall regarding passports. Unlike War Brides in Canada, in
>>>>>>> the US, the rules were different. My mother-in-law was a German War Bride.
>>>>>>> The paperwork regarding her citizenship, which I now have, clearly states
>>>>>>> that she had to give up all allegiance to any other county. Running on
>>>>>>> memory here, since it’s been a while since I looked at it, but giving up
>>>>>>> other allegiance was not a special requirement due to her German origin, is
>>>>>>> was a requirement of everyone. It is my belief that only very recently that
>>>>>>> the US govt. has allowed dual citizenship.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Elizabeth Robinson
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> daughter-in-law of Susanne Schuster Robinson Tripp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------
>>>>>>> War Bride Sites
>>>>>>> GI War Bride -http://www.uswarbrides.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Aussie - http://warbrides.com.au
>>>>>>> Bev Tosh - http://www.warbrides.com
>>>>>>> Canadian - http://www.canadianwarbrides.com
>>>>>>> Newfoundland - http://www.nlwarbrides.ca
>>>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------
>>>>>> War Bride Sites
>>>>>> GI War Bride -http://www.uswarbrides.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Aussie - http://warbrides.com.au
>>>>>> Bev Tosh - http://www.warbrides.com
>>>>>> Canadian - http://www.canadianwarbrides.com
>>>>>> Newfoundland - http://www.nlwarbrides.ca
>>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------
>>>>> War Bride Sites
>>>>> GI War Bride -http://www.uswarbrides.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Aussie - http://warbrides.com.au
>>>>> Bev Tosh - http://www.warbrides.com
>>>>> Canadian - http://www.canadianwarbrides.com
>>>>> Newfoundland - http://www.nlwarbrides.ca
>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------
>>>> War Bride Sites
>>>> GI War Bride -http://www.uswarbrides.com
>>>>
>>>> Aussie - http://warbrides.com.au
>>>> Bev Tosh - http://www.warbrides.com
>>>> Canadian - http://www.canadianwarbrides.com
>>>> Newfoundland - http://www.nlwarbrides.ca
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------
>>> War Bride Sites
>>> GI War Bride -http://www.uswarbrides.com
>>>
>>> Aussie - http://warbrides.com.au
>>> Bev Tosh - http://www.warbrides.com
>>> Canadian - http://www.canadianwarbrides.com
>>> Newfoundland - http://www.nlwarbrides.ca
>>> -------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------
>> War Bride Sites
>> GI War Bride -http://www.uswarbrides.com
>>
>> Aussie - http://warbrides.com.au
>> Bev Tosh - http://www.warbrides.com
>> Canadian - http://www.canadianwarbrides.com
>> Newfoundland - http://www.nlwarbrides.ca
>> -------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> War Bride Sites
> GI War Bride -http://www.uswarbrides.com
>
> Aussie - http://warbrides.com.au
> Bev Tosh - http://www.warbrides.com
> Canadian - http://www.canadianwarbrides.com
> Newfoundland - http://www.nlwarbrides.ca
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message



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