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Archiver > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-E1B1A > 2010-02 > 1265995784


From: "Pat Osborne" <>
Subject: Re: [Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-E1B1A] Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-E1B1A Digest, Vol 2,Issue 2
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 12:29:44 -0500
References: <mailman.1255.1265961742.14033.y-dna-haplogroup-e1b1a@rootsweb.com>
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1255.1265961742.14033.y-dna-haplogroup-e1b1a@rootsweb.com>


Hello list,
This is my first posting since joining this group. I felt that I had to
respond to this question:

>"Are you saying that all E1b1a's are African American in origin, and that
although there are a few documented lines to Europe, these are due to
immigration from >Africa to to Europe?"

As far as I know for at least 7 generations my family has been identified as
Caucasian. There have been family stories of Native American ancestors, but
I have not proof of this. I was quite surprised when my brother's DNA came
up E1b1a. I even asked for a re-test. At the time I too thought that this
Haplogroup would only show up in someone who was identified as
African-American in a reasonably short time-frame. I am trying to find
answers to the questions that this brings up!

Will be interested in your comments.

Pat

-----Original Message-----
From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of

Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 3:02 AM
To:
Subject: Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-E1B1A Digest, Vol 2, Issue 2



Today's Topics:

1. Re: New To Group ()
2. Re: New To Group (Jerry L. Ivey)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:20:38 +0000
From:
Subject: Re: [Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-E1B1A] New To Group
To:
Message-ID:

<344960437-1265901633-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1568811322-@b
da144.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Content-Type: text/plain

Dear Jerry,

Thank you for the references. A couple of more questions for you...

Are you saying that all E1b1a's are African American in origin, and that
althiugh there are a few documented lines to Europe, these are due to
immigration from Africa to to Europe?

What is the general characterics of tha appearance of people with this
haplotype? You've described light skin, are there any other distinguishing
features?

Thanks,

Colleen
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Jerry L. Ivey" <>
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:50:06
To: <>
Subject: Re: [Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-E1B1A] New To Group

I have seen some 393's = 15, but I'm not sure about the 390=20. Have you or
your friend posted the results at Y-Search, or any other available public
site so that others can see the whole results?

About the only document I've seen which attempted to survey the distribution
in the US is

"Estimating African American Admixture Proportions by Use of
Population-Specific Alleles", Esteban J. Parra, et.al., Am. J. Hum. Genet.
63:1839-1851, 1998.

I found the document hard to read and personally didn't get much from it.

It's my suspicion that a majority of the E1b1a results which have been
obtained thus far in programs such as Family Tree DNA, Ancestry, etc, may
have been from test participants who are now considered "White". There was a
surprisingly large population in early Colonial America of "Free Persons of
Color", "Mulattos", etc, whose descendents gradually passed into the general
population. Today, this is known as "Passing". Historically, it was known as
"Surviving".

The best reference for some of the family names which are in this category
is Paul Heinegg's work. His site is at http://www.freeafricanamericans.com/

There are a few known cases of test participants with E1b1a results who have
known family lines documented back to Europe. There are also some research
studies which show small amounts of E1b1a throughout Europe due to early
migration/transportation from Western Africa.


-----Original Message-----
From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of

Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 10:29 PM
To:
Subject: [Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-E1B1A] New To Group

Hi E1B1A's,

Just joined the group - am interested in helping a friend with his
ancestry.

Can anyone tell me anything about the distribution of this haplogroup in
the US? Or its history in the US?

I have been told that some E1b1a's turn out to be E1b1b1's but this guy is
really far off from the results I've seen posted for E1b1b1's. In
particular, he has DYS393 = 15, DYS390 = 20. Does anyone else on the list
have
this? Is this unusual?

Thanks,

Colleen



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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:52:48 -0500
From: "Jerry L. Ivey" <>
Subject: Re: [Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-E1B1A] New To Group
To: "" <>,
""
<>
Message-ID:
<>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Just because one has the E1b1a Y-DNA haplogroup, doesn't mean that one has
any significant proportion of "African" genes. The Y-DNA is only a very
small part of one's total genome.

I'm about as good an example as any --- I'm an E1b1a but autosomal DNA
results show me as nearly 100% Northern European (I have a small component
of Native American). The Y-DNA confers only "maleness". There are no
physical characterics such as hair color, skin color, hair type (straight vs
curly vs kinky), etc, which are associated with the Y-DNA. These are due to
the autosomal chromosomes which are the 22 pairs other than the X and the Y.

All modern humans have an origin in Africa. It's only a question of how
recent was the immigration. Prior to the massive number of forced
immigrations to the Americas during the slavery period (~1630-~1810 in North
America), there were some to Europe. It's also still an open question as to
how many may have made it to Europe within about 3000-4000 years since the
origination of the E1b1a haplogroup in Africa and been absorbed into the
overall population of Europe.

Two good references to the early days of Western African slavery are:

"Sins of the Fathers- The Atlantic Slave Traders, 1441-1807", James
Pope-Hennessy, Castle Books, 1967.

"Africa and Africans in the Making of the Atlantic World, 1400-1800", John
Thornton, Cambridge University Press, 1998.

-----Original Message-----
From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of

Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 9:21 AM
To:
Subject: Re: [Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-E1B1A] New To Group

Dear Jerry,

Thank you for the references. A couple of more questions for you...

Are you saying that all E1b1a's are African American in origin, and that
althiugh there are a few documented lines to Europe, these are due to
immigration from Africa to to Europe?

What is the general characterics of tha appearance of people with this
haplotype? You've described light skin, are there any other distinguishing
features?

Thanks,

Colleen
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Jerry L. Ivey" <>
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:50:06
To: <>
Subject: Re: [Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-E1B1A] New To Group

I have seen some 393's = 15, but I'm not sure about the 390=20. Have you or
your friend posted the results at Y-Search, or any other available public
site so that others can see the whole results?

About the only document I've seen which attempted to survey the distribution
in the US is

"Estimating African American Admixture Proportions by Use of
Population-Specific Alleles", Esteban J. Parra, et.al., Am. J. Hum. Genet.
63:1839-1851, 1998.

I found the document hard to read and personally didn't get much from it.

It's my suspicion that a majority of the E1b1a results which have been
obtained thus far in programs such as Family Tree DNA, Ancestry, etc, may
have been from test participants who are now considered "White". There was a
surprisingly large population in early Colonial America of "Free Persons of
Color", "Mulattos", etc, whose descendents gradually passed into the general
population. Today, this is known as "Passing". Historically, it was known as
"Surviving".

The best reference for some of the family names which are in this category
is Paul Heinegg's work. His site is at http://www.freeafricanamericans.com/

There are a few known cases of test participants with E1b1a results who have
known family lines documented back to Europe. There are also some research
studies which show small amounts of E1b1a throughout Europe due to early
migration/transportation from Western Africa.


-----Original Message-----
From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of

Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 10:29 PM
To:
Subject: [Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-E1B1A] New To Group

Hi E1B1A's,

Just joined the group - am interested in helping a friend with his
ancestry.

Can anyone tell me anything about the distribution of this haplogroup in
the US? Or its history in the US?

I have been told that some E1b1a's turn out to be E1b1b1's but this guy is
really far off from the results I've seen posted for E1b1b1's. In
particular, he has DYS393 = 15, DYS390 = 20. Does anyone else on the list
have
this? Is this unusual?

Thanks,

Colleen



-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
with the word 'unsubscribe'
without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message


-------------------------------
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with the word 'unsubscribe'
without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message



------------------------------



End of Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-E1B1A Digest, Vol 2, Issue 2
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