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From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: [DNA-HG-I] Our Precarious Beginnings
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 10:32:18 -0600


Here's a perspective on ydna extinction rates in ancient times.

The FoundersTree at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net for ydna I-haplogroup
suggests how precarious that haplogroup was for a long period of its early existence.

Imagine living in about the 170th generation after the original founder of the entire I-haplogroup. This would be just before the splintering of M223+ into its 4 indicated sub-clades.

If this time-tagged tree is approximately correct, it indicates there were only 8 males living at that time who were contributors do ALL of today's I-haplogroup population (ydna contributions that is).

And this is 5000 years after the original founder of I-haplogroup! Just 8 contributing descendants of the two (or more) contributing sons of the original founder of I-haplogroup existed!

I should define "ALL". I mean all I-haplogroup haplotypes found today with possible exceptions of a few parts in a thousand. And we exclude weakly sampled areas of the MidEast and Caucasus where we yet may find some new clades of I-haplogroup which have not shown up in Euro-centric databases.

The 8 contributing males living 5000 years after the founding of I-haplogroup were certainly not the total population of living I-haplogroup males of that time. But all the other I-haplogroup males of that time have no male-line descendants living today (although they do leave an autosomal genetic legacy).

Who were these 8 guys living 5000 years after the founder of I-haplogroup? They were the male-line ancestors of the eventual founders for the following clades

I1b1-Dinaric
I1b1-Western
I1b1-Isles
I1b1a(Sardinian)
I1b*
I1b2*
I1b2a (old I1c)
I1a

With exceptions at the part in a thousand level, every I-haplogroup haplotype I have seen can be assigned to one of those 8 clades.

Please note: none of the times discussed above refer to time intervals measured back from the present; that's another topic.

Ken






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