Archiver > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I > 2007-08 > 1188510116

From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA-HG-I] How to read Ken's "Founder Haplotypes" spreadsheet?
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:41:56 -0600
References: <8haed3lm1n1456289aasjdcvgnnvto0ndr@4ax.com>

You are a relative of a Driscoll with 67 markers who is in one of the clades
of I1b1-Isles in my research database. This clade of I1b1 parted ways with
I1b1-Dinaric of Eastern Europe many, many thousands years ago. I1b1-Isles
stands a good chance to be among the original post-LGM inhabitants of the
British Isles, and especially the island of Ireland.

All the problems you go over below in your message seem based on an
escessive dependence on out-dated or simply incorrect authorities. Rootsi
et al, for example, did not take a single ydna sample from the British
Isles. So how could they find a clade of I1b1 which resides almost totally
in the British Isles. They missed finding any M284+ I1b2a1 for the same

And Oppenheimer's stuff is just for selling books; I don't take it seriously
because he concludes way too much from way too short haplotypes.

Your 12 at DYS454 coupled with 19 at YCAIIa are the most dramatic indicators
of where your haplotype belongs.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Paul" <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 3:12 PM
Subject: [DNA-HG-I] How to read Ken's "Founder Haplotypes" spreadsheet?

> Hi all,
> I'm newish here having been subscribed for only a week since receiving my
> "SNP
> DEEP Haplogroup" back from family Tree DNA.
> They say I am I1b.
> Results : M170+ M258+ P19+ P37.2+ P38+ M161- M21- M223- M227- M253- M26-
> M307-
> M72- P30-
> So from my reading this suggests I am NOT II1b1b because of M26-.
> Looking at the ISOGG tree I could be either I1b* or I1b1a but as FTDNA did
> not
> test P41.2 I can't tell.
>>From my earlier 37 marker test and looking at Ken's material I can see I
> NOT I1b1-Western as DYS 388=13 for me.
> Turning to Ken's "Founder Haplotypes" spreadsheet dated 31 March 2007 I
> don't have any exact match on one of the I1b1 rows. I assume I should not
> expect to? I fail the exact match test at column 3 as I am 385b=17 .
> If I interpret the chart as 'yellow entries must match' then I might be
> I1b1*-Isles2 - except my 37 marker test does not cover DYS 463!
> I guess there is some guide to how to read the chart I have not stumbled
> over
> - if someone would point me at that I'd appreciate it.
> My paternal ancestry is Irish, my g-grandfather changed his surname from
> DRISCOLL to PAUL in London (where he was born). From the 1851 UK census,
> his
> father was 'born in Ireland'. Driscoll is of course strongly associated
> with
> County Cork in the south of Ireland.
> I note that Driscoll and spelling variants are over-represented in results
> from the 'match' functions in FTDNA and Y-Search.
> Another question I'm interested in is what are the theories on how so many
> people from the I1b Haplogroup made it to the UK?
>>From my reading (Oppenheimer's book and the Rootsi et al paper he quotes)
> never made it out of the Balkans and Eastern Europe.
> But when I look at the results from Y-Search etc it seems we are
> overrepresented in the UK.
> Maybe we are just more genetically inclined to contribute to DNA
> databases? :)
> I am 61687 in FTDNA and FYSJA in Y-Search.
> Cheers,
> Victor Paul,
> New Zealand
> Victor Paul, Loburn, NZ. email:
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