Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-L ArchivesArchiver > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I > 2007-12 > 1198177645
From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: [yDNAhgI] P41+ is Southern I1b1-Dinaric
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 12:07:25 -0700
With the kind cooperation of University of Arizona I had some of the P41+ dna material transfered to FTDNA where I purchased an extended haplotype measurement. I did this because all the P41 test results (negative) which I had seen were on I1b1-Dinaric samples, and since I1b1-Isles and I1b1-Western separated from the line leading to I1b1-Dinaric so very long ago, then perhaps P41+ would identify one of these other clades of I1b1 P37.2+ --- that was my thought process.
Most of the results have just been sent to me. The P41+ sample is I1b1-Dinaric(southern)
I1b1-Dinaric separates a little bit using DYS448 and DYS449. 448 = 20 represents the northern division, while 448 = 19 represents the southern division. The northern division has high 449 values, most often 32 or 33. The southern division has mostly 30 and 29. The geographical separation is not so clear cut; that's why I use lower case for southern and northern. Eventually we may see a signature here of the complicated way the I1b1-Dinaric spread to the north and east and later in the 6th century AD spread back to the south with the expansion of the Slavs.
The P41+ sample is 19 at 448 and 29 at 449
Whether P41+ is a relatively recent or "private" mutation or will be found in an appreciable population remains to be seen.