Archiver > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I > 2008-02 > 1203445030

From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: [yDNAhgI] M423 SNP for I1b1 (P37+) is Here
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 11:17:10 -0700

Ethnoancestry now is offering M423, an SNP discovered by Underhill's lab at Stanford University. This SNP is downstream of P37.2+. Dinaric I1b1 from Greece has been found positive for M423, while M26+ Sardinian I1b1a which parted ways with I1b1 very early is negative for M423.

I'll try to use words to describe why M423 should be tested by I1b1-Isles and I1b1-Western, but it will help a lot if you look at the red branch lines in my warpedfounderstree at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net

If my inter-founder triangulation which formed this tree is approximately correct, the branch line leading to I1b1-Western left the rest of P37+ about the same time as I1b1a-Sardinian branched off --- in two words, very early. So I predict I1b1-Western will be negative for M423. On the other hand, I1b1-Isles branch line appears to have left the branch line to I1b1-Dinaric much later --- about half the total time from P37+ mutation to the MRCA for I1b1-Dinaric. So I1b1-Dinaric has about an equal chance of being positive or negative for M423, depending on whether M423+ mutation occured before or after that branch off.

So it seems worthwhile for both I1b1-Isles and I1b1-Western haplotypes to test M423, so this can be pinned down.

The spread of I1b1 from one corner of Europe to the other (while staying out of Scandinavia) should eventually be one of the more interesting migratory stories within y haplogroup I

All I1b1 is P37+. But you can also recognize if you are in Dinaric, Isles, or Western clades of i1b1 by looking at the founder (modal) haplotypes at my website given above. The key to Western I1b1 is 15 repeats at DYS388. I1b1-Isles is more difficult to describe in a sound byte, but generally it has low 11 or 12 repeats at DYS385a while having the normal 13 repeats at DYS388. Dinaric I1b1 is almost always 14-15 at DYS385

I recommend M423 to many of you I1b1 (P37+) folks.

Someone is sending me by postal mail a copy of Underhill et al's paper which describes what they learned about M423's geography. I'll post a message about what is said when I get the paper.


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