Archiver > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I > 2009-02 > 1235264951

From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: [yDNAhgI] My Haplogroup I Website Update
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 18:09:11 -0700

I have updated a couple files at my site http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net

To the FoundersHaps excel spreadsheet I have added two new interesting clades. One is L38-14 (I2b2) It has DYS388 = 14 as its quickest identifier but the "regular" DYS455,454 = 10,12 of I2b2. It has heavy German contributions as well as the usual British Isles.
I have almost finished filling in the founders haplotype for I2a-F, a clade upstream a bit from both I2a2-Isles and I2a2-Dinaric.

The other new clade is I2a2-Disles M423+ It is of highest frequency in Ireland but shows Scot flavor as well. It is in GD roughly in the middle of I2a2-Dinaric and I2a2-Isles, perhaps a bit closer to Dinaric. You can see its branch line added to my warpedfounderstree file. This tree shows the estimated times of the branchings in the I-tree, arrived at by use of interclade variances and GD determinations.
Disles is a contraction of Dinaric and Isles with priority given to latter because that's where its haplotypes are found so far.

We really need more extensions of haplotypes to 67 markers for I2a-F, L38-14, and I2a2-Disles haplotypes.

L38-14 being 15-16 at DYS385, needs a few members to do the Kittler test to see what the Kittler order is for the 15 and 16 repeats.
Normal I2b2 L38 Kittler order has been established by previous testing, but DYS385 = 13-16 for normal I2b2. We might expect the same Kittler order for L38-14 clade, but that's not slam dunk for sure. I2b2 is an old haplogroup.

We need members of I2a2-Disles to do the new S163 snp test at Ethnoancestry. This snp is "T" for I2a2-Dinaric, but "G" for I2a2-Isles. Which way will I2a2-Disles go? It's in the middle.

Again, this all makes best sense if you look at warpedfounderstree at my website. Follow the branches with your fingers. You are moving through time from past to present as you move left to right. When you come to nodes you are encountering some man who had two sons who both are ancestors of today's living males --- each son being ancestor to some different future clades. Those nodes are the key events which we can date; we can not directly date when the snps occur. The snp occurrences can only be assigned to "somewhere" on specific branch segments between nodes.


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