Archiver > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I > 2009-02 > 1235765747

From: William Morrow <>
Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] New Subclade of P37.2+ I2a*-Western
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:15:47 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <007501c9990e$ed61a0c0$6400a8c0@Ken1>

Within the I2a Haplogroup Project, here are the following haplotypes
matching one or more of your defining markers.
                               kit numbers of I2a group
DYS385b = 16 [15] N52379
DYS439 = 13 [12]  99466, N52379, 134008
DYS389 = 13,29 [14,30] 109745, 85641
H4 = 9 [10]  none
DYS635 20 {21}
DYS520 = 19[20] none
click onto the icon Y-DNA Results and scroll to the bottom
to see I-P37.2-Western
I will email the members whose kit numbers are shown
and let them be aware of your new findings.
Bill Morrow
Group Adm I2a

--- On Fri, 2/27/09, Ken Nordtvedt <> wrote:

From: Ken Nordtvedt <>
Subject: [yDNAhgI] New Subclade of P37.2+ I2a*-Western
To: ,
Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 1:09 PM

I2a*-Western (P37.2+) is a decently populous haplogroup of northwest Europe and
mainly British Isles which academic researchers by and large missed in past
years. 23andMe includes no ysnp to tag this population, even though its branch
line separated from the rest of I haplogroup 20,000 years ago. This basically
means no snp searcher in the past ever used a I2a*-Western dna sample in their
searches. I1 on the other hand, having about the same length ancestral branch
line separating it from the rest of the I haplogroup, has over 25 redundant snps
found to tag it. Intrinsically, those two branch lines surely contain about the
same number of ysnps.

I2a*-Western is most quickly identified as being that P37.2+ with 15 at DYS388
instead of the usual 13.

I2a*-Western haplogroup is therefore defined by absence of certain snps, being
P37.2+ (xM26,xM423)

I2a* is very young with an MRCA age of less than 3000 years.

A solid subclade was recently found which is almost exclusively British ---
It has the following shifts from the I2a*-Western modal form (given in backets)

DYS385b = 16 [ 15 ]
DYS439 = 13 [ 12 ]
DYS389 = 13,29 [14,30]
H4 = 9 [ 10 ]
DYS635 = 20 [21 ]
DYS520 = 19 [ 20 ]

I found this and some other new clades after incorporating over 2000 new
haplotypes into my database. Something strikes me odd about this incorporation:
I'm not sure the statistics of the marker repeats for haplotypes in various
clades is the same for the new source as from my earlier sources. This makes me
nervous that different labs may be measuring some marker repeats differently?
That would be a nightmare for those of us collecting data from multiple sources.
The other explanation could be intrinsically different clientele having their
data in the different databases. This above clade, for example, has an
inordinate fraction of its membership from the new source; that's probably
why it was only recently identified.


To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
with the word 'unsubscribe'
without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This thread: