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Archiver > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I > 2009-03 > 1235941926


From: "Wil Husted" <>
Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] A French clade of M26+
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 14:12:06 -0700
References: <00a101c99a23$c3bb88b0$6400a8c0@Ken1>


Hello Ken,

Doggerland was above water and occupied by Mesolithic peoples from around
11,000 to 8,000 years ago, possibly earlier. Your latest dating for M26 is
about 6,000 years ago, some 2,000 years after Doggerland was submerged by
rising sea levels. There are Mesolithic archaeological sites in England. The
burial site at Aveline's Hole in Somerset that contained remains of at
least 21 individuals is dated between 10,400 and 10,200 B.P. Star Carr is
dated at 10,700 B.P. Howick House is dated at 9,000 B.P. Cramond, Scotland
is dated at 10,500 B.P. and Mount Sandel in Ireland is dated at 9,000 B.P.
The peoples inhabiting and dying in the British Isles must have arrived from
the continent via Doggerland.

I'm uncomfortable with your age for M26 of 6,000 years but lack the knowlege
to say why. I agree that my M26 ancestors arrived in Britain soon after the
LGM. However, Doggerland was under water by 6,000 B.P. and there had already
peoples in the British Isles for at least 4,000 years.. If M26 peoples
didn't get there until 6,000 years ago or somewhat later, of what
haplogroups might the earlier arrivals represent? This has been bothering me
for weeks, doggone it all!

Wil

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
To: <>; <>
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 9:11 PM
Subject: [yDNAhgI] A French clade of M26+


It sure helps to get an influx of a couple thousand new haplotypes, albeit
shorter than one would want. New clades within Haplogroup I are peeping up
above the noise level. An interesting new one is a clade of M26+ with a
distinct French flavor to it. M26+ has been called "Sardinian" because a
bunch of it is found on that Mediterranean island, but this extremely old
clade seems to have moved up the Atlantic seaboard and also into the British
Isles soon after the end of the LGM

This M26-F clade has the following modalities which differ from the bulk of
M26+

DYS19 = 17
DYS391 = 9
DYS442 = 13
DYS447 = 24
DYS439 = 12/13
DYS461 = 23/13

Not often do we find clades whose hotspot seems to be France, but here's
one.

These M26 haplotypes have the standard 11 at YCAa which must have been the
result of a massive deletion at this STR between 10 and 20 thousand years
ago.

Ken





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